Ok, Hoon, now I can't tell if you are being deliberately obtuse or whether you really don't understand where I am coming from. Quotes from "fantasy novels" aren't appropriate references when one is talking about issues of philosophical conviction, eh? So, I suppose Plato's Dialogues (including the Republic, which was the basis for Republican Rome, and an inspiration for the American republic, too) is out, eh? I guess Nietzsche's "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" is also out? As much as I hate her fucking guts, Ayn's Rands entire life's work is also out, I suppose....along with the Bhagavad Gita and the Bible, too? Either address the ideas being articulated, or don't, but don't ignore the arguments being presented to you for some intellectually lazy retreat through the back door. Freedom is only possible in the absence of COERCION. Liberty only exists in the absence of authoritarian relationships between individuals. Now, maybe Freedom and Liberty in the sense that I am presenting them only exist in an idealized sense, but we are talking about ideals and you were the one waxing eloquently about the nature of the relationship between freedom and equality, positing a bunch of spurious shit that I took issue with. I directed you to an author whose ideas on the subject influenced my own so that in the event that you were TRULY curious, you could go and read for yourself. The bottom line is that a man is not free if he is able to be coerced by another in the pursuit of his basic needs. Freedom FOR self-actualization is useless without freedom FROM coercion and aggression.