In my home town of flint michigan...

[weknowhowtolive]

Thats right...another one...this time about health insurance titled "Sicko" ....i cant wait :rolleyes:

http://articles.news.aol.com/movies/_a/moore-slices-up-health-care-in-new-film/20060910021309990003

[Hostilesouthern]

Thats right...another one...this time about health insurance titled "Sicko" ....i cant wait :rolleyes:

http://articles.news.aol.com/movies/_a/moore-slices-up-health-care-in-new-film/20060910021309990003


That guy is a shithead, no doubt, still he points out the truly valid here. Our healthcare system is fucked up and getting worse.

[Johnny Rebel]

That guy is a shithead, no doubt, still he points out the truly valid here. Our healthcare system is fucked up and getting worse.


I agree, but he's just out to stir the pot, without offering any kind of solution or possibility of a solution. Just wants to get people pissed off about the same things he is and make a buck. Fuck Michael Moore.

[Hostilesouthern]

I agree, but he's just out to stir the pot, without offering any kind of solution or possibility of a solution. Just wants to get people pissed off about the same things he is and make a buck. Fuck Michael Moore.

Anything that gets people to pay attention to this is good, in my opinion. Even that tubby bitch.

[gregtheskin]

I agree, but he's just out to stir the pot, without offering any kind of solution or possibility of a solution. Just wants to get people pissed off about the same things he is and make a buck. Fuck Michael Moore.

Yup. tenletters

[Johnny Rebel]

Anything that gets people to pay attention to this is good, in my opinion. Even that tubby bitch.


I would normally agree with you yes, but this is Michael Moore, so I'm goin to disagree. Yes they are paying attention to it, but the information they're recieving is biased, slanted, and overall false. Not to say that other media sources (Fox, BBC, CNN) are without bias, but Michael Moore is more 'gung-ho' if you will in his mission to 'inform' the masses.

[magnetmaz]

Flint has got to be one of the most depressing places in the USA. When i moved to detroit i was dating a girl from outside of flint....so i often had to run up there to visit her family or whatever. Ugh. That's a rough, bleak city. It feels like you're in a former Eastern Bloc country.

[beer and loathing]

It feels like you're in a former Eastern Bloc country.

Funny thing is that's how I describe most of Detroit to people.

[magnetmaz]

Funny thing is that's how I describe most of Detroit to people.

It's not so bad where my house is ....and where you USED to live.

I'm scootering distance to some really great bars :)

[Hostilesouthern]

Ok here is a juicy bit then since this thread seems to be going nowhere....

Tell me about Detroit. I am aware of the decline of the city since the auto industry collapsed, but I am super far South from y'all and have very little to go on outside of media. What's the deal w/ the lack of recovery in Detroit?

[Diana E]

I'd like to see Michael Moore go after the legal community next. In my opinion they are the root cause of an incredible amount of bullshit.

[beer and loathing]

It's not so bad where my house is ....and where you USED to live.

I'm scootering distance to some really great bars :)

True but we live(d) in the suburbs of Detroit. Detroit itself is a mess.

I'd love to be able to answer HostileSouthern's questions, but since I no longer live in there, I'm no longer up on the political issues.

[Gentle Jones]

flint town got some good gangster rap though!

[magnetmaz]

Ok here is a juicy bit then since this thread seems to be going nowhere....

Tell me about Detroit. I am aware of the decline of the city since the auto industry collapsed, but I am super far South from y'all and have very little to go on outside of media. What's the deal w/ the lack of recovery in Detroit?

Detroit is a city that's fiercly proud of being "detroiters". People who actually live in Detroit bristle when you say you are from Detroit but don't actually live in the shit...south of 8 mile.

We've got the youngest mayor in the whole country, Kwame Kilpatrick, who's an absolute thug ... putting all his homies and family members into jobs, and canning or making trouble any person in power who tries to get in his way. It's like old-school mafioso ... only with black people.
http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/Pictures/Persons/085365/085365-182718.jpg

The problem is that someone more competent could really make a difference for the city... but Kwame's got a 'ghetto charm' that keeps him in office despite more qualified people running against him. Since Detroit proper is like 90+% black, all that matters is how 'black' you are when it comes to election time. If you're viewed as a house ****** ( by having fancy degrees, or experience running things other than your Escalade ) ....then you'll never get elected over someone who the black contingent feels they relate with ....and that's why thug-life Kiwame got elected and stays elected.

This is all despite the fact that he's had numerous corruption charges leveled against him - throwing huge freaknik parties at the mayoral mansion and paying for it on the city's coffers. Taking trips and smoozing with hip-hop celebrities, buying big Escalades for his family members and putting them on the city's tab.... etc. It's rediculous.

Race is always going to be the #1 thing motivating politics and whatnot here. Anytime anyone wants to come in and actually fix up the city, put something in that could benefit it ...it's all about 'how is this going to affect the black community?'. But it's so corrupt that the few things the city DOES get get botched up - for example the 3 indian casinos downtown were supposed to be required to put in hotel rooms ... spend a ton more money, but they were let off the hook on some back-alley deals and never were held to that contract.
It's just shit like that. I don't think it's ever going to be different. It's just going to get shittier as the big 3 continue to close down plants, put the working class out of jobs, the median income falls, crime rises, ...and the skilled labor move out of the city to find jobs. Huge gifts to the city like the Superbowl being here - huge chances to really turn things around with tons of money the city could use to elevate itself ... it's just being squandered.

[Hostilesouthern]

flint town got some good gangster rap though!


You fucking suck. If you are going to post in this forum, have something intelligent to say, assface. Your schtick seems to fly in the main forum, this one tries to be slightly above endless smiley faces and newbies taunts.

[beer and loathing]

Race is always going to be the #1 thing motivating politics and whatnot here.

Very well put! Things have changed only for the worse since Coleman Young was mayor! Race has always been such a huge problem in Detroit. It seems the Race Riots from the 60's have made a permanent mark in deciding Detroit's future.

When my brother and his girlfriend moved to Columbus from Detroit, they commented on the hostilities between the races and how race (being white) negatively affected their education.

I was shocked to hear that was still going on and I commented that while Columbus has a little trouble here and there, all in all, the issue here is a class issue and not a race issue.

I left Detroit for the military and when I served my four years, I went back to Detroit. It was in the same, if not worse condition when I left, while the suburbs surrounding the city seemed to flourish a bit. From Detroit I moved to Lansing to attend MSU. There seemed to be some of the same problems, but on a much smaller scale.

Southern Michigan's economy as a whole sucks, which is why I pursued a career in Columbus, whose economy is continually growing stronger by the day.

[Gentle Jones]

You fucking suck. If you are going to post in this forum, have something intelligent to say, assface. Your schtick seems to fly in the main forum, this one tries to be slightly above endless smiley faces and newbies taunts.

the topic says its about flint:

michael moore filmed a documentary called roger and me in flint mich in 1989 (thats right in the article)

this record came out of flint:

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/25/95/230420-resized200.jpg as did a nice handful of others in my collection

you already said that you know jack about flint, so shut the fuck up and learn something about it

[Hostilesouthern]

the topic says its about flint:

michael moore filmed a documentary called roger and me in flint mich in 1989 (thats right in the article)

this record came out of flint:

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/25/95/230420-resized200.jpg as did a nice handful of others in my collection

you already said that you know jack about flint, so shut the fuck up and learn something about it



Your cute little picture imparts no knowledge.

Fucking twice baked barf bag.

[beer and loathing]

Another interesting thing I noticed about Detroit/Metro Detroit is that since I left for the military in 1995, some of the once affluent cities surrounding Detroit such as Southfield, Troy, and Sterling Heights have degraded.

[Johnny Rebel]

the topic says its about flint:

michael moore filmed a documentary called roger and me in flint mich in 1989 (thats right in the article)

this record came out of flint:

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/25/95/230420-resized200.jpg as did a nice handful of others in my collection

you already said that you know jack about flint, so shut the fuck up and learn something about it


FUCK OFF PLEASE.

[magnetmaz]

But it's race arguments taken to absolutely obscene and wasteful extents... It's laughable how it stymies all progress.
For example - a few months ago there was discussion about shutting down the Detroit Zoo ( which is actually down the street from me, in a nice neighborhood, outside of the Detroit limits, in a mostly white suburb ). The city of Detroit was previously paying the 7 or 8 million a year to keep the zoo running, but because of budget constraints they decided to shut it down.
Well, a private company stepped in and said "we'll buy the zoo off of the city, make it privately owned and run, just to keep it open as a resource for the city ...keep the animals in place and all the 300 employees employed"
To which a Detroit City Council woman Collins ( mentioned in article below ) responded that they would never reliquinsh a city asset they considered black owned and controlled to a private, white owned business. They would rather have it close than see it owned by white folks.


Here's a blog entry i just googled up and i think it's a perfect explanation of what's going on: ( from http://www.hubsandspokes.com/archives/2006/02/ )
"Detroit and the inability to "self-govern"
detroitblog on the zoo fiasco:
Moreover, to be brutally honest, what is inaccurate about the notion that "we’re not able to govern ourselves?" Can’t imagine what would foster that idea among people in Michigan. Could it be the city’s ever-growing debt, the crumbling neighborhoods, the continuously out-of-control crime, the illiterates put in charge of things by equally illiterate voters, the increasingly poor and uneducated population, the flight of middle-class residents of all races, the utter ineffectiveness of the school system, the systematic closing of century-old cultural institutions, the pointless destruction of irreplaceable century-old architectural marvels, and the inability of the imbeciles in charge to understand that all this is a problem?
Collins and her dimwitted cohorts, and those who "served" before her, clearly cannot govern. The evidence is everywhere you look in Detroit, outside of a handful of wealthy neighborhoods, the central business district and a small portion of downtown that’s been recreated as Royal Oak South for suburbanites. And even then, success of those areas is mostly due to the efforts of private entities and outsiders. The city is in a downward spiral financially, structurally and culturally, propelled by the geniuses at the helm who not only don’t seem interested in stopping the decline, but don’t even think that there’s a problem.
It’s not just suburbanites "bashing" Detroit nowadays; many city residents themselves, stuck as prisoners of the simpletons in charge, will tell you they’re eager for a state takeover. At this point, it can’t come soon enough. If Collins is worried about the zoo being taken over, wait until everything is in the hands of suburbanites in Lansing. And despite the caterwaul that will follow, there will be nobody to blame but her and her race-mongering cohorts."

[tiger beat]

It is one seriously scary city. I had a friend in school in Windsor so we went down to visit and then decided to cross the border.

My most vivid memories were all the factories, cinder block bars without windows and being refused service in McDonald's, they wouldn't even give me a glass of water. We high-tailed it out of there as quick as the little Ford Focus would take us.

[Gentle Jones]

Your cute little picture imparts no knowledge.

holler at google


The Dayton Family is a hardcore "Gangsta Rap" group from Flint, Michigan, USA, roughly an hour north of Detroit. Flint is home to some of the most depressed, dangerous ghetto neighborhoods in America. It was from these hopeless streets that the Dayton Family arose, naming themselves after one of the city's most infamous hustling streets, Dayton Avenue. Like Detroit's Esham and Memphis' Three 6 Mafia, the Dayton Family sincerely emulated their Midwestern mentality: a dark, grim mentality focused on modest survival rather than riches or fame. Unfortunately, the group's members all endured problems with the law throughout the late '90s. Their numerous indictments prevented them from ever capitalizing on their modest success. As a result, years passed with only the occasional solo album to retain any interest in the cult group.
The Dayton Family originally formed in the early 1990's. The group consisted of Bootleg ( Ira Dorsey ), Shoestring ( Raheen Peterson ), and Backstabber ( Matt Hinkle ). They decided to name the group after one of Flint's most infamous hustling streets, none other than Dayton Avenue. Immediately after the group's formation they began writing rhymes together, resulting in their first song "Dope Dayton Ave". They teamed up with local producer Steve Pitts and recorded their first full album "What's On My Mind?". It was released locally in 1993, and then again nationally on April 27, 1995. Soon after, they also contributed the song "Stick N' Move", to No Limit's "Down South Hustlers" compilation album, which helped them to gain fans in the American south.
After much touring and word of mouth promotion, TDF had begun to develop quite a reputation in the hardcore "gangsta rap" underground scene, mainly across the MidWest and South. They then entered the studio to create their second album, "F.B.I." (Fuck Being Indicted). The group was now a duo consisting of Bootleg and Shoestring since Backstabber had been arrested on drug charges and sentenced to a ten year prison term between "What's on My Mind?" and "F.B.I.". The album was released on September 24, 1996. It soon went gold and managed to make it's way into the billboard R&B/rap top ten chart in late 1996. But unfortunately, just as the Dayton Family were on their way to mass recognition in the hardcore rap underground, the law intervened. But if this wan't enough hard luck, Bootleg was indicted soon after the release of F.B.I.
All through the remainder of the 90's the group's members, (especially Bootleg) dealt with legal issues and jail time. Amidst this, Bootleg still managed to release his first solo album: "Death Before Dishonor" on March 23, 1999. Shoestring also released his first solo album, "Representin' Til' the World Ends" this same year. Then in 2001 Bootleg and Shoestring both released their second solo albums "Hated By Many, Loved By Few" (Bootleg) and "Cross Addicted" (Shoestring), also Bootleg's brother Ghetto E released his first solo album "Ghetto Theater" in this same year.

[beer and loathing]

But it's race arguments taken to absolutely obscene and wasteful extents... It's laughable how it stymies all progress.
For example - a few months ago there was discussion about shutting down the Detroit Zoo ( which is actually down the street from me, in a nice neighborhood, outside of the Detroit limits, in a mostly white suburb ). The city of Detroit was previously paying the 7 or 8 million a year to keep the zoo running, but because of budget constraints they decided to shut it down.
Well, a private company stepped in and said "we'll buy the zoo off of the city, make it privately owned and run, just to keep it open as a resource for the city ...keep the animals in place and all the 300 employees employed"
To which a Detroit City Council woman Collins ( mentioned in article below ) responded that they would never reliquinsh a city asset they considered black owned and controlled to a private, white owned business. They would rather have it close than see it owned by white folks.

That's insane!!! It is almost laughable, but unfortunately a lot of good people are suffering because of this what I once considered "outdated" racial nonsense! I say outdated because since I've not lived there in a few years, I have not been exposed to it, so I figured people have learned to grow up!

[magnetmaz]

It is one seriously scary city. I had a friend in school in Windsor so we went down to visit and then decided to cross the border.

My most vivid memories were all the factories, cinder block bars without windows and being refused service in McDonald's, they wouldn't even give me a glass of water. We high-tailed it out of there as quick as the little Ford Focus would take us.

Well, not to defend a city that i spend very little time in ... but it's not THAT bad. When you cross the bridge, you're in mexican town and some other industrial squalor... you were probably minutes from some really cool places.

You know how in the city you live you'll admit that "most of the city is nice, but there's a few neighborhoods i wouldn't want to end up in alone and at night" ? Detroit is sorta the opposite. There's a TON of places i wouldn't want to end up alone and at night in .... but there are some oasises ( oasisi ?) in the city that are really cool little cultural enclaves ...cool bars, ...museums...shopping areas....restraunts....street festivals and whatnot.

I would imagine that it's very frustrating to be living in the city .... being one of the people there that actually PAY their taxes ( and the taxes are exorbanant, because only the people with money actually pay them so they triple tax you to cover all the deadbeats. For example, i pay about $3000 a year in taxes on my property, but it would be $7k-$8k in taxes to own a house the same size downtown. ) ....and they reap almost NO city services from the money they are paying.

[magnetmaz]

That's insane!!! It is almost laughable, but unfortunately a lot of good people are suffering because of this what I once considered "outdated" racial nonsense! I say outdated because since I've not lived there in a few years, I have not been exposed to it, so I figured people have learned to grow up!

I hate to say it, but Detroit is the national capital of the "play the race card" game.

In the last week, ANOTHER black Detroit city council member, Alonzo Bates, was found guilty of embezzlement of city funds. He had a new roof put on his daughter's house, had a gardner for his property, and a number other things that he charged to the city. He was found guilty in court a few days ago and he went off on a huge rant that members of the jury must be in the KKK ... ( there were 3 or 4 black jurors ).... all of them be hatin' on the black man.

THIS IS A CITY COUNCILMAN!

[tiger beat]

We ended up finding Royal Oak and spending some time there. And we weren't in Mexican town, it was the 'other minority that is the majority' town. This was around '97 so things might have changed but that's what we saw and how we were treated.

[beer and loathing]

Well, not to defend a city that i spend very little time in ... but it's not THAT bad. When you cross the bridge, you're in mexican town and some other industrial squalor... you were probably minutes from some really cool places.

True! It's poor and it's dirty, but I've had so much fun in Detroit! I've never felt unsafe nor was I ever victimized or assaulted.

My best friend from that time lived in Highland Park, off of McNichols and that's a TERRIBLE area. It was common to see people walk around with a baseball bat or a crowbar in hand, yet we'd sit on the porch and drink beers and no one ever bothered us. More than once we've been drunk walking around the Cass Corridor at 3am. Our regular bar we went to for beers and shows, The Falcon Club, was in Hamtramck.

I've come to the conclusion that to survive in Detroit, you just have to mind your own business. Bother no one and no one will bother you (for the most part).

[magnetmaz]

We ended up finding Royal Oak and spending some time there.

That's where i own a home.

[Hostilesouthern]

I hate to say it, but Detroit is the national capital of the "play the race card" game.

In the last week, ANOTHER black Detroit city council member, Alonzo Bates, was found guilty of embezzlement of city funds. He had a new roof put on his daughter's house, had a gardner for his property, and a number other things that he charged to the city. He was found guilty in court a few days ago and he went off on a huge rant that members of the jury must be in the KKK ... ( there were 3 or 4 black jurors ).... all of them be hatin' on the black man.

THIS IS A CITY COUNCILMAN!


Two words for you. Cynthia McKinney. Thing is, as much as she played that card, my neighbors got sick of it and decided to not give her the Democratic nod.

Atlanta, in the center of the South, has had black mayors and council for decades now. We have our fair share of this sort of pandering, but not to that degree in any way.


Either way, very interesting thread, other than this nonsense about the rap scene.

[steelcityskin]

Anything that gets people to pay attention to this is good, in my opinion. Even that tubby bitch.

exactly. i never knew how fucked our healthcare was til we had to start paying the state for my fiance's insurace. over $500 a month. A MONTH!! something is really wrong when yer making what equals a house payment for fucking insurance

[beer and loathing]

exactly. i never knew how fucked our healthcare was til we had to start paying the state for my fiance's insurace. over $500 a month. A MONTH!! something is really wrong when yer making what equals a house payment for fucking insurance

Damn, over $500 a month? Who's your carrier? I work for a health insurance company.

[steelcityskin]

Damn, over $500 a month? Who's your carrier? I work for a health insurance company.

it's thru the state, but i believe it's tied in with blue cross/shield. she has crohn's, so she's damn near un-insurable under our fucked up insurance scam..ermm system:smile:

[Hostilesouthern]

it's thru the state, but i believe it's tied in with blue cross/shield. she has crohn's, so she's damn near un-insurable under our fucked up insurance scam..ermm system:smile:


BCBS is a different sort of monster, but be glad you have that coverage. It's one of the most solid companies out there when it comes to paying out on claims & not fucking over their insured.

[beer and loathing]

It's a pretty decent company - that's the monster I work for.

[Martina]

holler at google

Why do yoiu insist on trying to detrail this thread with your fucking hip-hop bullshit? No one gives a fuck about it in the MUSIC FORUM so why do you think it belongs HERE?

Are just a one demensional anti-hero with bad rap songs and equally bad posts?
Or do you actually have something to contribute here? Cause we are still fucking waiting.

[Martina]

it's thru the state, but i believe it's tied in with blue cross/shield. she has crohn's, so she's damn near un-insurable under our fucked up insurance scam..ermm system:smile:

When you get married, does she not qualify for your group plan?

[weknowhowtolive]

When you get married, does she not qualify for your group plan?

Prexisting problems usually mean you dont get on a spouses plan.

[beer and loathing]

And some plans won't cover pre-existing conditions at all.

[Martina]

Prexisting problems usually mean you dont get on a spouses plan.

Really? I thought that pre-existing conditions aren't covered by private policy's but were covered by a group plan.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

We've got the youngest mayor in the whole country, Kwame Kilpatrick, who's an absolute thug ... putting all his homies and family members into jobs, and canning or making trouble any person in power who tries to get in his way. It's like old-school mafioso ... only with black people.
http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/Pictures/Persons/085365/085365-182718.jpg
Don't hate on Kwame because you didn't get invited to the party at the mansion. :wink:

Chicago operates the same way, and it's probably 10 times more corrupt then Detroit...but we've made the shit work for 150+ years.
anyone intrested can check out just a sample below..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Chicago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Democratic_Machine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_J._Daley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_M._Daley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stroger

It just seems like your crooks are a little less effective. Don't know what to tell you besides you should know a nigga with a diamond in his ear named Kwame is usually not mayorial material.

[weknowhowtolive]

Don't know what to tell you besides you should know a nigga with a diamond in his ear named Kwame is usually not mayorial material.

Ahahahahah....oh man.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

Ahahahahah....oh man.
Just found out that Kwame beat Inspector Todd from Beverly Hills Cop to get elected. Fucking Inspector Todd was running to be the Mayor of Detroit...you can't make this shit up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Hill

[weknowhowtolive]

this just shows that america is taking politics more and more as a joke. Jesse Jackson, Arnold, Inspector Todd???

[Professor]

Detroit is a city that's fiercly proud of being "detroiters". People who actually live in Detroit bristle when you say you are from Detroit but don't actually live in the shit...south of 8 mile.

We've got the youngest mayor in the whole country, Kwame Kilpatrick, who's an absolute thug ... putting all his homies and family members into jobs, and canning or making trouble any person in power who tries to get in his way. It's like old-school mafioso ... only with black people.
http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/Pictures/Persons/085365/085365-182718.jpg

The problem is that someone more competent could really make a difference for the city... but Kwame's got a 'ghetto charm' that keeps him in office despite more qualified people running against him. Since Detroit proper is like 90+% black, all that matters is how 'black' you are when it comes to election time. If you're viewed as a house ****** ( by having fancy degrees, or experience running things other than your Escalade ) ....then you'll never get elected over someone who the black contingent feels they relate with ....and that's why thug-life Kiwame got elected and stays elected.

This is all despite the fact that he's had numerous corruption charges leveled against him - throwing huge freaknik parties at the mayoral mansion and paying for it on the city's coffers. Taking trips and smoozing with hip-hop celebrities, buying big Escalades for his family members and putting them on the city's tab.... etc. It's rediculous.

Race is always going to be the #1 thing motivating politics and whatnot here. Anytime anyone wants to come in and actually fix up the city, put something in that could benefit it ...it's all about 'how is this going to affect the black community?'. But it's so corrupt that the few things the city DOES get get botched up - for example the 3 indian casinos downtown were supposed to be required to put in hotel rooms ... spend a ton more money, but they were let off the hook on some back-alley deals and never were held to that contract.
It's just shit like that. I don't think it's ever going to be different. It's just going to get shittier as the big 3 continue to close down plants, put the working class out of jobs, the median income falls, crime rises, ...and the skilled labor move out of the city to find jobs. Huge gifts to the city like the Superbowl being here - huge chances to really turn things around with tons of money the city could use to elevate itself ... it's just being squandered.


sounds kinda like asbury park.....without the ghetto thug mayor. what detroit needs is some gays to move in. they are doing wonders with asbury....if there's one thing ghetto thugs fear, it's gays. once you see one or two rainbow flags popping up, start buying property there. i wish i had some money when property in asbury was cheap and the gays started moving in. i probably could have quadrupled my investment in the 5 years i've been gone.

[siobahn]

interesting stuff. i lived in ann arbor for about a year when i was a kid, don't remember much about detroit except for this mad brutal carjacking. soon after my family moved to MI, we were sitting in the car at a stoplight on.. erm.. some street that turns off of I-75...(not too far from downtown apparently). these three guys came up to the car in front of us, smashed the windows (this was a family with two kids), opened the doors and threw the people, including the kids, on the ground, all while shoving automatic shotguns in their faces. don't remember much else except that we helped them get to a nearby gas station and the man's face was completely covered with blood. this was the middle of the day and there were people everywhere.. yet my parents were the only ones who even seemed to notice. anyway it didn't seem like a very friendly place to be white.

I would normally agree with you yes, but this is Michael Moore, so I'm goin to disagree. Yes they are paying attention to it, but the information they're recieving is biased, slanted, and overall false. Not to say that other media sources (Fox, BBC, CNN) are without bias, but Michael Moore is more 'gung-ho' if you will in his mission to 'inform' the masses.i agree with you on one level. i think the more 'gung-ho' someone (or some organization) is, the less likely the info you receive will be valid. but honestly.. people need to do their own research. michael moore is a total shitbag, but in a way i'm glad he makes the movies he does. to some extent his stuff is going to be held to a high standard in terms of accuracy (because it is so widely viewed). not saying he doesn't twist things, present a slanted view - certainly that goes on. but raising awareness about the thing is what matters; people should be able to make up their own minds.

and yes, your health care system is certainly fucked, but it's not perfect here either. what american liberals often forget is that universal access leads to longer waiting times, which obviously means that people are more likely to die while waiting to receive care. i don't know too much about this subject so i'm not picking a side with this, it's just something to keep in mind.

[Gentle Jones]

Why do yoiu insist on trying to detrail this thread

derail? this thread was a train wreck out the gate

the title of this thread is flint mi so here i post the best thing to come out flint since the 80s

do yall even read these articles before you discuss them? mike moores flint flick was from 1989.

here you are talking about his new flick and at the same time flint which have no relation (wtf?)

and anyway michael moore is a fat fuck with no manners

yes healthcare is a mess in the u.s., no i don't need mike's propaganda to know that, my wife and i just had a baby this year and those sharks were in our pockets at every turn, charging shit like 60 bucks to look in his ears with a pocket light, and not asking permission.

now what i find interesting is the story of flint which is the story of what happens to a community when the business men leave it and its human resources for greener pastures. that story is on that record i posted. politics, business, and culture always go hand in hand in hand.

what detroit needs is some gays

the gays already been to detroit and they didn't buy houses they bought house records

[weknowhowtolive]

derail? this thread was a train wreck out the gate

the title of this thread is flint mi so here i post the best thing to come out flint since the 80s

do yall even read these articles before you discuss them? mike moores flint flick was from 1989.

here you are talking about his new flick and at the same time flint which have no relation (wtf?)

and anyway michael moore is a fat fuck with no manners

yes healthcare is a mess in the u.s., no i don't need mike's propaganda to know that, my wife and i just had a baby this year and those sharks were in our pockets at every turn, charging shit like 60 bucks to look in his ears with a pocket light, and not asking permission.

now what i find interesting is the story of flint which is the story of what happens to a community when the business men leave it and its human resources for greener pastures. that story is on that record i posted. politics, business, and culture always go hand in hand in hand.



the gays already been to detroit and they didn't buy houses they bought house records

Uhhhhh...ive never seen a Michael Moore film where he didnt say at some point "in my home town of flint mi..." or "back in flint mi" etc.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

this just shows that america is taking politics more and more as a joke. Jesse Jackson, Arnold, Inspector Todd???
hahaha, my congressman is Jesse Jackson Jr.

[Hostilesouthern]

hahaha, my congressman is Jesse Jackson Jr.

Oh you poor bastard.

[weknowhowtolive]

hahaha, my congressman is Jesse Jackson Jr.

Oh and i forgot the Body...i got a Ventura shirt that says "My Govenor Can Beat up Your Govenor"

[Gentle Jones]

Uhhhhh...ive never seen a Michael Moore film where he didnt say at some point "in my home town of flint mi..." or "back in flint mi" etc.



The Fraud "From Flint"
By Lowell Ponte (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/authors.asp?ID=10)
FrontPageMagazine.com


MICHAEL MOORE AND HIS AGITPROP FILM FAHRENHEIT 9/11were nowhere to be found on the lists of Academy Awards nominees released last week. And despite his commercial success, the Writers Guild omitted (http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2005012805220002458074&dt=20050128052200&w=RTR&coview) Moore from consideration for its first list of documentary writing award nominees. The only award (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/1/24/190824.shtml) Moore received was from a gun rights group highlighting his hypocrisy after a bodyguard (http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/1/20/155711.shtml) for this maker of the 2003 Academy Award-winning anti-gun Bowling for Columbine got arrested in New York City for carrying a handgun not licensed there.


Hypocrisy is nothing new for Michael Moore, nor the Hollywood Left. But Hollywood makes its money by anticipating which way the winds are blowing. By distancing itself from this self-aggrandizing egomaniac, Tinsel Town may be signaling that America’s cultural winds are shifting away from the Loony Left.

So who is Michael Moore, this multi-millionaire filmmaker and author of several books, who has been called (http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/15/features-taylor.php) “the Left’s only well-known shock jock,” compared (http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13891) by Christopher Hitchens to socialist Adolf Hitler’s film propagandist Leni Riefenstahl?

Michael Moore is his own fictional character, a self-written being who soon will require another rewrite if his lucrative fantasy career is to survive.

Moore’s production company, aptly named, is Dog Eat Dog Films. His agent Ariel “Ari” Emanuel is brother of Congressman Rahm Emanuel, D-IL, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and a former White House operative for President Bill Clinton.

Michael Moore never was a “working class boy from Flint, Michigan,” as he pretends. He was born on April 23, 1954, in Davison, Michigan, a lily-white upper-middle class suburb 10 miles east of Flint, where his father Frank assembled AC spark plugs, and his mother was a clerk-secretary for General Motors (GM).


For a few decades following World War II, America’s global power (relative to war-shattered Europe and Japan) and the benefits provided to employees by GM and the United Auto Workers (UAW) union made life pleasant.

Moore’s parents enjoyed ample income, free medical and dental care, four weeks of paid vacation each year, and had two cars in their well-to-do Davison home. Moore’s Irish-American father had spent workday afternoons playing golf. After he retired at age 53 with a full pension, he enjoyed a life of ease, golf and volunteer work at the local Roman Catholic church.

Moore and his two younger sisters “were raised in what amounted to a mini-welfare state, where powerful unions took care of most of their members’ basic needs, right down to prescription eyeglasses,” wrote (http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/15/features-taylor.php) Ella Taylor in 2004 in the left-wing newspaper L.A. Weekly. “No wonder there’s so much fellow feeling between Moore and Canada, which has socialized medicine, not to mention Europe, where he is hugely popular.”

After eighth grade Moore enrolled in a Catholic pre-seminary. “He admired the Berrigan brothers [radical anti-Vietnam War Catholic priests] and thought that the priesthood was the way to effect social change,” wrote (http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/040216fa_fact7) The New Yorker’s Larissa MacFarquhar in February 2004. “This resolve lasted only through his first year, though, after the Detroit Tigers made it to the World Series for the first time in Moore’s life, and the seminary wouldn’t allow him to watch the games.”

Returning to school, at age 16, Moore gave a speech in a local contest in which he condemned the Elks Club for barring blacks. He won not only the contest prize but also a first intoxicating, glory-addicting taste of fame (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9104) as media reported his fledgling political activism. CBS called to ask about his views. He soon sought more attention with an Eagle Scout award-winning slide show accusing what Moore called the worst polluters in his town. He was learning that the road to fame was a harsh accusation against some established conservative group or company that, if it fit the liberal political template, would be accepted without question by the liberal media.


holler at google

[Bound Fo' Glory]

the title of this thread is flint mi so here i post the best thing to come out flint since the 80s
If the best thing to come outta Flint is a group that's biggest claim to fame is that they were on the Down South Hustlas comp, Flint must be in SERIOUS trouble. That was about the worst thing No Limit put out....and No Limit made some horrible records. Lil' Italy, Mercedes, Silkk tha Shocker, Lil' Romeo, those Dirty South Snoop Dogg records...god damn Master P had some turds.

[Hostilesouthern]

holler at google

Your grasp of google is truly amazing. Such an asset, you are.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

Oh you poor bastard.
He's not that bad actually, been doing big things bringing the new airport and transit lines out here. Everyone's favorite Mullato, Barack Obama came out of his camp.:wink:

[Hostilesouthern]

He's not that bad actually, been doing big things bringing the new airport and transit lines out here. Everyone's favorite Mullato, Barack Obama came out of his camp.:wink:

Bill Campbell did that for us, now that worked out nicely.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

holler at google

Holler at deez nuts you Copy and Pastin mother fucker.

[Professor]

Holler at deez nuts you Copy and Pastin mother fucker.

it's like he's channelling hedge only instead of wp gibberish that has nothing to do with anything, it's flint michigan rap gibberish that has nothing to do with anything.

[Gentle Jones]

i ran out of nicotine patches yesterday

[Bound Fo' Glory]

it's like he's channelling hedge only instead of wp gibberish that has nothing to do with anything, it's flint michigan rap gibberish that has nothing to do with anything.
That's a good comparison. If you've ever thrown down on any kids now's a good time to tell us Gentle Jones.

[siobahn]

i ran out of nicotine patches yesterdaydoes this mean you will return to smoking as much and as quickly as possible? excellent.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

does this mean you will return to smoking as much and as quickly as possible? excellent.
I heard pistol smoke gives a good buzz...you gotta fire it into your mouth though.

[weknowhowtolive]

I got it. Im gunna take a shot every time he mentions Flint in his upcoming movie.

[LeftWingScum]

exactly. i never knew how fucked our healthcare was til we had to start paying the state for my fiance's insurace. over $500 a month. A MONTH!! something is really wrong when yer making what equals a house payment for fucking insurance

that's what happens in for-profit healthcare. people who favor privitized healthcare instead of government run healthcare really have no reason to complain about the high premiums. also privitized healthcare runs around 12-13% overhead where medicare/medicade runs around 1%...just wanted to point that out.

[Dawgnuts]

I just farted and it smells so bad a threw up a little in my mouth. :icon_smile_angry:

[Hostilesouthern]

Holler at deez nuts you Copy and Pastin mother fucker.


You suck, I spit Turnip Greens out when I read this.

[Hostilesouthern]

that's what happens in for-profit healthcare. people who favor privitized healthcare instead of government run healthcare really have no reason to complain about the high premiums. also privitized healthcare runs around 12-13% overhead where medicare/medicade runs around 1%...just wanted to point that out.


Your source? What state does that Medicaid stat come from?

[Martina]

All I can say, it's nice to be able to go to the hopstial if I need to.
i'd rather wait than not be seen at all.

Part of the reason my husband and I decided that I would join him in CA instead of him coming here is that he got a job with benifits. There's no way I could be a mom and not take my kid to the doctor because I was worried about how much it would cost.

As a new resident in the US (when I finally get there), I don't qualify for HMO coverage for many years.....yet in Canada even refugee's get treated on our dime. That's part of our healthcare problem, housing crisis and other issues.

[Hostilesouthern]

All I can say, it's nice to be able to go to the hopstial if I need to.
i'd rather wait than not be seen at all.

Part of the reason my husband and I decided that I would join him in CA instead of him coming here is that he got a job with benifits. There's no way I could be a mom and not take my kid to the doctor because I was worried about how much it would cost.

As a new resident in the US (when I finally get there), I don't qualify for HMO coverage for many years.....yet in Canada even refugee's get treated on our dime. That's part of our healthcare problem, housing crisis and other issues.


We have tons of public health depts here, anytime a patient has a laspe in coverage and can not afford to be see, I send them there. The idea of going without health care in the U.S. is a lie. Does not happen.

[beer and loathing]

We have tons of public health depts here, anytime a patient has a laspe in coverage and can not afford to be see, I send them there. The idea of going without health care in the U.S. is a lie. Does not happen.

Excellent point!

[Martina]

We have tons of public health depts here, anytime a patient has a laspe in coverage and can not afford to be see, I send them there. The idea of going without health care in the U.S. is a lie. Does not happen.

But what is the criteria to qualify for these plans?

[Hostilesouthern]

But what is the criteria to qualify for these plans?


None, you walk in, get seen after a long wait.

[Hostilesouthern]

Also, it's illegal to deny services, in a hospital setting, to anyone seeking life saving care. Once you are seen, and are unable to pay for that bill, there are massive private funds and tax breaks the hospital is able to apply for. Hil Burton is one, that's solely available to the hospitals for pts unable to fulfill their bills, that's why docs offices send the uninsured to the hospital. Our branch of health is very limited as to what we have access to when someone is unable to pay.

[beer and loathing]

Exactly! You bring up excellent points and I'd like to add to them.

I really try hard not to get into e-arguments concerning healthcare - but it's infuriating when people think they can't be treated without insurance. They can, they just have to pay for it. And it's expensive because that's what the doctors charge.

Also if your insurance carrier denies a service, it doesn't mean you can't still get the procedure done. You can, you just have to pay for it.

And for the most part, insurance is expensive because doctors charge $20.00 for a band-aid (people sue doctors left and right, so they have to charge more to pay for their bills), people don't pay their deductibles, and groups don't pay their premiums.

Just because health insurance companies make a profit, big deal, they are providing a service and they should be reimbursed accordingly.

All the bitching people do about having to pay each month and having a deductible, co-insurance or co-pay is a bunch of garbage because no matter what, you are still paying less out of pocket with insurance than without.

If you don't like it and you want a socialized system, then don't buy health insurance and stand in line for a free clinic. It's that fucking easy.

Okay, I'm done.

[Diana E]

Exactly! You bring up excellent points and I'd like to add to them.

I really try hard not to get into e-arguments concerning healthcare - but it's infuriating when people think they can't be treated without insurance. They can, they just have to pay for it. And it's expensive because that's what the doctors charge.

Also if your insurance carrier denies a service, it doesn't mean you can't still get the procedure done. You can, you just have to pay for it.

And for the most part, insurance is expensive because doctors charge $20.00 for a band-aid (people sue doctors left and right, so they have to charge more to pay for their bills), people don't pay their deductibles, and groups don't pay their premiums.

Just because health insurance companies make a profit, big deal, they are providing a service and they should be reimbursed accordingly.

All the bitching people do about having to pay each month and having a deductible, co-insurance or co-pay is a bunch of garbage because no matter what, you are still paying less out of pocket with insurance than without.

If you don't like it and you want a socialized system, then don't buy health insurance and stand in line for a free clinic. It's that fucking easy.

Okay, I'm done.


And that's the funny thing, health insurance companies don't make a huge amount of money. In NJ, health insurance companies are only allowed to charge $1.25 for every $1 they pay in claims. So that $.25 represents all operating costs ALL of them. Look at it that way.

Health insurance and dr's are bound in a reciprical relationship. Dr. Tom wants to charge $50 to look at your throat. The health insurance company wants to pay $40. When a dr agrees to accept a certain health insurance, they also agree to accept that company's fee schedule. So Dr. Tom can charge whatever he wants but he has to accept what the company pays him. Then we get into balance billing and that's a whole other kettle of fish. Not to mention what lawyers do to the system.

[weknowhowtolive]

Well...20-25% profit isnt THAT bad....if you're running a business thats a multibillion dollar a year business, 20% profit before overhead is just fine. But, its capitalism folks.

[beer and loathing]

You know what's up Diana E!!!

It's called "usual and customary" payment. Doctors could rob a person blind if health insurance companies didn't keep them in check!

[SkinnyBird]

flint town got some good gangster rap though!
I just watched your sig...wow.

I want to see somebody take on reporters. I hate reporters. Everybody says Lawyers are sharks but reporters are vultures. Most court cases wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the way the media covers them.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

You suck, I spit Turnip Greens out when I read this.
I have to say that is one type of Green I've never had.

[weknowhowtolive]

I have to say that is one type of Green I've never had.

kallahd gureeeeenssss!!! mmm mmmmmm mmmmmmmm!

[LeftWingScum]

Well...20-25% profit isnt THAT bad....if you're running a business thats a multibillion dollar a year business, 20% profit before overhead is just fine. But, its capitalism folks.

have you ever looked into solidarity economics and worker owned co-ops as alternatives to capitalism? there are many successful ones in america and throughout north and south america. it's something you can't possibly argue against when compared to capitalism.

[Hostilesouthern]

I have to say that is one type of Green I've never had.


And you say you are black...PFFFFFT. Turnip Greens are the fucking shit, like Collards but without the bitter.

[loridk]

I love my health care system. Sorry but the wait isn't nearly as big of a deal as they make it out to be. Sure, the hospital at 2am for a headache might take you awhile but otherwise it's not so bad. I just would never want to worry whether I could afford to get something checked out.

Car insurance companies are the DEVIL. Here we have no choice, you have to be insured to drive. Fair enough. But I don't see why you have to pay x amount every month and then x amount deductable when most accidents cost less to fix if you just skip the insurance company. They ONE time I had an incident to report to our insurance was when our car was broken into. They took all our cds in there (that, surprise!, the car insurance doesn't cover) and my husbands amp/speaker junk. They also broke the radio. In the end, it wasn't worth even paying the deductable. Fuck them.

[loridk]

Well, not to defend a city that i spend very little time in ... but it's not THAT bad. When you cross the bridge, you're in mexican town and some other industrial squalor... you were probably minutes from some really cool places.


I'm hitting Mexican Town tonight. Hopefully I wont get shot. :wink:

[tiger beat]

We have tons of public health depts here, anytime a patient has a laspe in coverage and can not afford to be see, I send them there. The idea of going without health care in the U.S. is a lie. Does not happen.
Is that considered a "means tested benefit"? (welfare). If so, she can't get it, either can I.

[beer and loathing]

Is that considered a "means tested benefit"? (welfare). If so, she can't get it, either can I.

You mean like Medicaid? No, it's different - anyone can go.

[tiger beat]

You mean like Medicaid? No, it's different - anyone can go.
Good to know. I'm trying to navigate the health care system down here (and Marti will too once she gets down here). Due to our immigration status we have a lot of rules we have to adhere to and it's daunting coming from Canada. Doctors don't even understand the rules so I'm not sure how we're supposed to either.

[Hostilesouthern]

Is that considered a "means tested benefit"? (welfare). If so, she can't get it, either can I.


Nope, just a plain old public health department. I have zero problem with a small portion of tax dollars going to those facilities. They acutally have a very capitalistic reason for being open, keep the general work force healthy and the swell of diseases like TB down to a low contagion level.

[Hostilesouthern]

Good to know. I'm trying to navigate the health care system down here (and Marti will too once she gets down here). Due to our immigration status we have a lot of rules we have to adhere to and it's daunting coming from Canada. Doctors don't even understand the rules so I'm not sure how we're supposed to either.


Well duh, you guys ask me.