Jesus H..wtf is wrong with some people?

[Oldcrow]

I would love to hear this guys explanation for THIS heinous shit....

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100224/D9E28RNO0.html

[J_BCS]

Wow. That is fucked up, parts of fetuses in jars?!

[Oldcrow]

Wow. That is fucked up, parts of fetuses in jars?!

the level of depravity of people never ceases to me amaze me bro...

[Glenndle]

Fucking disgusting

[SHOCBOY-MARK]

Some desperate mofos to be using that place.

[pinnskin]

I'd probably be fucked up too if my name was Kermit.

[Facetothesouth]

Just saw this fucked up shit in the paper this morning. Don't come to Philly for abortions because you're probably better off attempting it yourself. I've never been into an abortion clinic but I'm pretty sure putting the aborted fetuses in jars isn't protocol.

[TheKid]

Words fail me.

[Professor]

Some desperate mofos to be using that place.

seriously.

[Hexxx]

Damn thats so wrong! those poor girls.. if only they knew what that bastard was doing? Ed Gein shit

[SWIFTY]

fucking hell how wrong can you get

[Swagger]

The fetus parts in jars didn't bother me nearly as much as the blood on the floor, untrained staff doing gynecological examinations or the staff administering medication.

[DIYWMD]

"So who did your abortion?"

"Oh, Doctor Kermit."

"Kermit?"

"Yeah, he even does the voice."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHGS8qhpZSc

[MammaLysha]

Just think about this next time someone says abortion should be illegal. Might as well leave it as is, so that there are some decent clinics around.

I wonder how many girls come out of there with horrible diseases. Hell, or not come out at all, like the girl they caused an overdose on.

[Anon1]

Just think about this next time someone says abortion should be illegal. Might as well leave it as is, so that there are some decent clinics around.

I wonder how many girls come out of there with horrible diseases. Hell, or not come out at all, like the girl they caused an overdose on.

Do you believe in the constitution as written?

Yes or no please.

[DIYWMD]

Do you believe in the constitution as written?

Yes or no please.

Where does it say in the constitution that a man can't have fetus parts in jars? This man is a political prisoner.

[Anon1]

Where does it say in the constitution that a man can't have fetus parts in jars? This man is a political prisoner.

I'd imagine storage of body parts is covered at state level.

Edit: As it should be.

[DIYWMD]

I'd imagine storage of body parts is covered at state level.

Edit: As it should be.

My buddy used to have a shark in a jar. Not as cool as this one

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/105164602_91dde29f3b.jpg?v=0

And he gave it to this broad he was trying to fuck, even though I had asked for it several times.

[Anon1]

My buddy used to have a shark in a jar. Not as cool as this one

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/105164602_91dde29f3b.jpg?v=0

And he gave it to this broad he was trying to fuck, even though I had asked for it several times.

What a dick.

[Oldcrow]

Just think about this next time someone says abortion should be illegal. Might as well leave it as is, so that there are some decent clinics around.

I wonder how many girls come out of there with horrible diseases. Hell, or not come out at all, like the girl they caused an overdose on.

and so what if it was? As it stands abortion is LEGAL and we got freaks like this runnin around...tell ya what, don't wanna get pregnant, use one of the thousands of birth control methods readily available...."oh I want my freedom to CHOOSE..it's MY BODY"....really?? then act responsibly...cuz YOUR body gets up and walks away...

[rizsisindra]

and so what if it was? As it stands abortion is LEGAL and we got freaks like this runnin around...tell ya what, don't wanna get pregnant, use one of the thousands of birth control methods readily available...."oh I want my freedom to CHOOSE..it's MY BODY"....really?? then act responsibly...cuz YOUR body gets up and walks away...

damn, i can't rep you for that

[MONK 585]

Wow. That is fucked up, parts of fetuses in jars?!

don't colleges buy that shit?

[Chicagogirl773]

I'd probably be fucked up too if my name was Kermit.

I was thinking the same thing.


The fetus parts in jars didn't bother me nearly as much as the blood on the floor, untrained staff doing gynecological examinations or the staff administering medication.

Shit yeah. What the fuck.

It's so fucked up how desperate some people are for shit that should be available to everyone. What the fuck. I'm pretty sure most of the people who went there only went there because it was the only thing they had. Birth control? How are you going to explain birth control to some ignorant bitch who isn't even educated about her own body? Condoms? Spermicide? If people were properly educated about what the fuck they workin' with, shit like this wouldn't happen.
Getting so enraged over something like this, this is why I wanna go into working in low income clinics. The place I go to, to get birth control and exams, is run by the greatest bunch of nurses I have ever met. They are really big on patient education, which I think is great. It might've been instilled in me at a young age, but being a girl and having extra parts that do wacky things, you should have at least a basic understanding of why and how, and how not to. It can't just be me being a medical nerd. If you are female, know your shit. Maybe then people like this would have nobody to feed off of. Not saying everyone who gets knocked up is dumb, but you can't put fetuses into jars if dumb cunts aren't there to make 'em.

[magichateball]

Could it also be that someone would choose something like this for any number of reasons such as: A - the possibility that the law there requires doctors to notify parents of an underage patient and so, for the right amount of money, this could be kept hush hush, B - some women feel threatened by the presence of pro-life demonstrators outside a legit planned parenthood clinic to not want to get real, trained professional help and would resort to someone not on the radar of some psycho that will, ironically, kill you in the name of pro-life. And because youve chosen to come to a place like this, to keep yourself inconspicuous, you wouldn't dare say anything about what the "doc" will do with your discarded fetus...or maybe I'm totally wrong. :|

[Chicagogirl773]

Could it also be that someone would choose something like this for any number of reasons such as: A - the possibility that the law there requires doctors to notify parents of an underage patient and so, for the right amount of money, this could be kept hush hush, B - some women feel threatened by the presence of pro-life demonstrators outside a legit planned parenthood clinic to not want to get real, trained professional help and would resort to someone not on the radar of some psycho that will, ironically, kill you in the name of pro-life. And because youve chosen to come to a place like this, to keep yourself inconspicuous, you wouldn't dare say anything about what the "doc" will do with your discarded fetus...or maybe I'm totally wrong. :|

I looked it up, minors do need parental permission in PA. That also sucks. Still, in terms of education- if you're educated about it, no matter how old you are, you should be able to make that decision yourself, and not be the type of person to use abortion as birth control. Essentially. Which in my opinion, is why they place those laws in effect, underneath it all. Yeah in general a 14 year old is not informed enough to be making sound opinions on their own care- but if it's a 14 year old deciding in the first place to have sex, and then getting pregnant- well, they should've been given the tools to make a sound decision in the first place. They put themselves in that group now. Doesn't always mean that they are. My friend, from the age of 12, has wanted her tubes tied. She wasn't even having sex then, she just never wants babies at all. Now, almost 10 years later and her opinion is still the same but no doctor will refer her for it, because the overall opinion is that she is still too young. Fuck that noise. You're responsible for your body and should not be penalized for making those decisions on your own. Yeah there isn't a law about it but people are still gonna be in an uproar, such as the pro-life supporters waiting outside a clinic, like you mentioned.
Not sure where exactly I was going with this, but my point is: bitches should be educated and be able to make their own, informed decisions, and other people should stay the fuck out of other people's uterus's. Then shit like this wouldn't happen, yeah.

[MammaLysha]

and so what if it was? As it stands abortion is LEGAL and we got freaks like this runnin around...tell ya what, don't wanna get pregnant, use one of the thousands of birth control methods readily available...."oh I want my freedom to CHOOSE..it's MY BODY"....really?? then act responsibly...cuz YOUR body gets up and walks away...
IMO, abortion is not a means for birth control. I do think it is the lesser of two evils though. Some immature woman that doesn't have what it takes to raise a contributing member of society, gets knocked up, takes every handout possible, neglects her child (or worse), and "raises" yet another useless human. Obviously this is not every case, but it is all too frequent. With the world being overpopulated by 5 billion, I'm a fan of keeping the numbers down.

And yes, there are clinics like this now with it legal. However, if it were illegal, this would be the only type of clinic available. As for the women who aren't using because they screwed up and didn't use protection, they deserve a clean place to have surgical procedures.

[Oldcrow]

IMO, abortion is not a means for birth control. I do think it is the lesser of two evils though. Some immature woman that doesn't have what it takes to raise a contributing member of society, gets knocked up, takes every handout possible, neglects her child (or worse), and "raises" yet another useless human. Obviously this is not every case, but it is all too frequent. With the world being overpopulated by 5 billion, I'm a fan of keeping the numbers down.

And yes, there are clinics like this now with it legal. However, if it were illegal, this would be the only type of clinic available. As for the women who aren't using because they screwed up and didn't use protection, they deserve a clean place to have surgical procedures.


why do they deserveanything? Really, what is the logic that says because you fucked up, you deserve to be treated with some special treatment that relieves you of the circumstance you created? By that logic, a man who "fucks up" and fathers a child should have the same special treatment available to avail him of having his pay robbed for the next 18 years....but yet when it comes to THAT aspect of the issue, all of a sudden, this freedom of choice is tossed out the window......it's lopsided horseshit like everything else.

[Danibyrd]

why do they deserveanything? Really, what is the logic that says because you fucked up, you deserve to be treated with some special treatment that relieves you of the circumstance you created? By that logic, a man who "fucks up" and fathers a child should have the same special treatment available to avail him of having his pay robbed for the next 18 years....but yet when it comes to THAT aspect of the issue, all of a sudden, this freedom of choice is tossed out the window......it's lopsided horseshit like everything else.

What about the children/babies/potential children-babies involved here? You keep fucked up moms from free birth control (including abortion) and you'll have a lot of kids with miserable existences that will end up having kids of their own and a starting a lovely family legacy for generations of violence, poverty and abuse.

Screw the parents, it's about the kids.

[Oldcrow]

What about the children/babies/potential children-babies involved here? You keep fucked up moms from free birth control (including abortion) and you'll have a lot of kids with miserable existences that will end up having kids of their own and a starting a lovely family legacy for generations of violence, poverty and abuse.

Screw the parents, it's about the kids.

ok, then answer the question, why can't a man have the same choice?


edit: it ain't "free", nothing is..you, me and everyone else pays for it in some way...so, wheres MY CHOICE not to fund abortions?

[SHOCBOY-MARK]

ok, then answer the question, why can't a man have the same choice?


edit: it ain't "free", nothing is..you, me and everyone else pays for it in some way...so, wheres MY CHOICE not to fund abortions?What self respecting man wouldnt step up and help support a child he produced, no matter if the kid was wanted or not. You dont want to risk paying for a kid you dont want, then keep your dick in your pants.

[Oldcrow]

What self respecting man wouldnt step up and help support a child he produced, no matter if the kid was wanted or not. You dont want to risk paying for a kid you dont want, then keep your dick in your pants.

Jesus, you never quit...my only point is this, if a woman can decide whether or not to bare a child, then a man should have the same choice to support or be involved in the childs life as well. This whole notion that a woman, solely based on the fact that she wears a bra is some Madonna figure and has the ultimate say in regards to a child is horeshit....you want equality? you want a choice? then live with your actions and stop playing a blame game all while expecting special treatment. Don't wanna get pregnant? Then keep your fuckin legs closed...and if not, don't start the tears expecting tax payers and a dude who made the SAME mistake you did to foot the fuckin bill.

[DIYWMD]

ok, then answer the question, why can't a man have the same choice?


edit: it ain't "free", nothing is..you, me and everyone else pays for it in some way...so, wheres MY CHOICE not to fund abortions?

Have you ever tried to kill a sperm? They're small and fast.

[MazelTovCocktail]

i am completely prochoice and think that people who are prolife should be so for themselves and keep it as such..don't like abortion? don't have one.that being said, i'm in complete agreement that the men involved should have a say..guy doesn't want it, the girl does - girl has it and takes care of it on her own and doesn't ask for a dime...guy wants it, girl doesn't - girl has it and gives it to the guy...so on and so forth. i don't feel as if abortion should be used as birth control in the sense of having 17 of them in a span of a few years, but i think that it should be an available and safe option for those who chose to partake and learn from their actions...

[DIYWMD]

i am completely prochoice and think that people who are prolife should be so for themselves and keep it as such..don't like abortion? don't have one.that being said, i'm in complete agreement that the men involved should have a say..guy doesn't want it, the girl does - girl has it and takes care of it on her own and doesn't ask for a dime...guy wants it, girl doesn't - girl has it and gives it to the guy...so on and so forth. i don't feel as if abortion should be used as birth control in the sense of having 17 of them in a span of a few years, but i think that it should be an available and safe option for those who chose to partake and learn from their actions...

That was some King Solomon type shit.

[Oldcrow]

i am completely prochoice and think that people who are prolife should be so for themselves and keep it as such..don't like abortion? don't have one.that being said, i'm in complete agreement that the men involved should have a say..guy doesn't want it, the girl does - girl has it and takes care of it on her own and doesn't ask for a dime...guy wants it, girl doesn't - girl has it and gives it to the guy...so on and so forth. i don't feel as if abortion should be used as birth control in the sense of having 17 of them in a span of a few years, but i think that it should be an available and safe option for those who chose to partake and learn from their actions...

hey Look!!!! COMMON FUCKING SENSE! You never cease to impress lady...

[Oldcrow]

Have you ever tried to kill a sperm? They're small and fast.

funny, but in no way the point.

[Anon1]

i am completely prochoice and think that people who are prolife should be so for themselves and keep it as such..don't like abortion? don't have one.that being said, i'm in complete agreement that the men involved should have a say..guy doesn't want it, the girl does - girl has it and takes care of it on her own and doesn't ask for a dime...guy wants it, girl doesn't - girl has it and gives it to the guy...so on and so forth. i don't feel as if abortion should be used as birth control in the sense of having 17 of them in a span of a few years, but i think that it should be an available and safe option for those who chose to partake and learn from their actions...

What is the constitutional impetus for federally protected abortion?

[Oldcrow]

What is the constitutional impetus for federally protected abortion?

oooooooo I know I know! There ain't one...

[Anon1]

oooooooo I know I know! There ain't one...

Gold Star Scotty, gold fucking star :)

[Oldcrow]

Gold Star Scotty, gold fucking star :)

well ya know bro, why should we even bother referring to the constitution? half these rubes have no idea what any of it says or means...hell, we're kooks man! Reminds me of that old quote, tyranny will continue to grow at whatever level we tolerate...and yet people these days refuse to see it.....the feds say it or do it, then by God thats the end...

[MazelTovCocktail]

hey Look!!!! COMMON FUCKING SENSE! You never cease to impress lady...

thanks handsome..just my feelings on the subject..


What is the constitutional impetus for federally protected abortion?

at the risk of sounding like an idiot, i'm not understanding your question.

edit: i understand what you're asking, just not sure where you're going with this...no mention of abortion in the constitution means there shouldn't be any whatsoever?

[J_BCS]

Don't breed 'em if you can't feed 'em.

[SHOCBOY-MARK]

why do they deserveanything? Really, what is the logic that says because you fucked up, you deserve to be treated with some special treatment that relieves you of the circumstance you created? By that logic, a man who "fucks up" and fathers a child should have the same special treatment available to avail him of having his pay robbed for the next 18 years....but yet when it comes to THAT aspect of the issue, all of a sudden, this freedom of choice is tossed out the window......it's lopsided horseshit like everything else.

Dude guess what?














Life at always fair.

[Oldcrow]

Dude guess what?














Life at always fair.

really? thanks for that revelation chief....fair ain't got dick to do with it.

[Glenndle]

Why does every thread have to turn political? The point was that THIS abortion "clinic" is deplorable.

[Oldcrow]

Why does every thread have to turn political? The point was that THIS abortion "clinic" is deplorable.


cuz I'm a prick that way...

[Glenndle]

cuz I'm a prick that way...

Being right doesn't make you a prick, I'm a prick.

[MammaLysha]

why do they deserveanything? Really, what is the logic that says because you fucked up, you deserve to be treated with some special treatment that relieves you of the circumstance you created? By that logic, a man who "fucks up" and fathers a child should have the same special treatment available to avail him of having his pay robbed for the next 18 years....but yet when it comes to THAT aspect of the issue, all of a sudden, this freedom of choice is tossed out the window......it's lopsided horseshit like everything else.

The logic is here:

As for the women who aren't using because they screwed up and didn't use protection, they deserve a clean place to have surgical procedures.
I didn't say anything about deserving something when you created the situation. As we all know, there are situations where a woman gets pregnant when she didn't have a choice. Also, there are pregnancies that need to be terminated due to horrible birth defects, stillborns, etc. I also don't mean that it should be free, you want an abortion, you pay for it. I'm not asking for the federal government to fund it, merely for it to remain legal so that licensed medical professionals can conduct the procedure.

As for the dudes, I'm in agreement. If you don't want to have a child, don't. Give the child to the mother, and all rights that come along with the child (and vice versa). No pay, no play. I'm pretty sure a man can choose to walk away by termination of paternal rights, not 100% certain though.

I completely agree with Sara too. It's not a means to end it 17 times. But I don't know many women who have an abortion more than once, as far as I know it rocks you pretty hard.

[Danibyrd]

ok, then answer the question, why can't a man have the same choice?


edit: it ain't "free", nothing is..you, me and everyone else pays for it in some way...so, wheres MY CHOICE not to fund abortions? We fund abortion AND available BIRTH CONTROL or we fund the kids in the prison system. Way more expensive


Don't breed 'em if you can't feed 'em. Right. I agree. I don;t think abortion should be used as birth control. Most abortions aren't. Abortions are heavy fucking shit to walk through.
I wasn;t talking about abortion really. I wasn;t talking about clinics that make birth control available to low-income women. So, maybe I missed the point here.


Being right doesn't make you a prick, I'm a prick. Prick! :)

[Chicagogirl773]

We fund abortion AND available BIRTH CONTROL or we fund the kids in the prison system. Way more expensive

Right. I agree. I don;t think abortion should be used as birth control. Most abortions aren't. Abortions are heavy fucking shit to walk through.
I wasn;t talking about abortion really. I wasn;t talking about clinics that make birth control available to low-income women. So, maybe I missed the point here.

Prick! :)

Right on.
I can't rep you.

[Oldcrow]

We fund abortion AND available BIRTH CONTROL or we fund the kids in the prison system. Way more expensive

Right. I agree. I don;t think abortion should be used as birth control. Most abortions aren't. Abortions are heavy fucking shit to walk through.
I wasn;t talking about abortion really. I wasn;t talking about clinics that make birth control available to low-income women. So, maybe I missed the point here.

Prick! :)

Thats a load of shit, in essence you are saying that if we don't fund abortion and birth control, all those kids will end up in prison...show me the research and stats on that one....somthin tells me I'll be waiting for a while for your answer. And all this talk about pregnancies needing to be terminated because of defects, abortion due to rape, etc. Are you folks serious?? Again, lets see the stats on this...if anyone here thinks the majority of abortions in this country AREN'T done as a means of oops, I fucked up birth control, I got some prime real estate in Florida to sell ya.

edit: you said most abortions aren't done as a means of birth control...then what reason is behind them then? Rape? Birth Defects?Incest? Funny, if that were the case it would seem we would be hearing about the epidemic of rape and incest sweeping the country and the skyrocketing raise in birth defects...what color is the sky in your little world?

[MazelTovCocktail]

The logic is here:

I didn't say anything about deserving something when you created the situation. As we all know, there are situations where a woman gets pregnant when she didn't have a choice. Also, there are pregnancies that need to be terminated due to horrible birth defects, stillborns, etc. I also don't mean that it should be free, you want an abortion, you pay for it. I'm not asking for the federal government to fund it, merely for it to remain legal so that licensed medical professionals can conduct the procedure.

As for the dudes, I'm in agreement. If you don't want to have a child, don't. Give the child to the mother, and all rights that come along with the child (and vice versa). No pay, no play. I'm pretty sure a man can choose to walk away by termination of paternal rights, not 100% certain though.

I completely agree with Sara too. It's not a means to end it 17 times. But I don't know many women who have an abortion more than once, as far as I know it rocks you pretty hard.

how women can do it more than once is beyond me. it's the most haunting feeling in the world that you will never shake, why put yourself through it more than once? i guess those types of women are the ones using it as birth control and therefore have no sense whatsoever, or feelings...

[Oldcrow]

The logic is here:

I didn't say anything about deserving something when you created the situation. As we all know, there are situations where a woman gets pregnant when she didn't have a choice. Also, there are pregnancies that need to be terminated due to horrible birth defects, stillborns, etc. I also don't mean that it should be free, you want an abortion, you pay for it. I'm not asking for the federal government to fund it, merely for it to remain legal so that licensed medical professionals can conduct the procedure.

As for the dudes, I'm in agreement. If you don't want to have a child, don't. Give the child to the mother, and all rights that come along with the child (and vice versa). No pay, no play. I'm pretty sure a man can choose to walk away by termination of paternal rights, not 100% certain though.

I completely agree with Sara too. It's not a means to end it 17 times. But I don't know many women who have an abortion more than once, as far as I know it rocks you pretty hard.

um, how is an abortion a solution to a stillborn....? gonna kill it twice?

[MazelTovCocktail]

um, how is an abortion a solution to a stillborn....? gonna kill it twice?

if you know that the baby is going to be born stillborn, you can opt to have a termination instead of giving birth to a lifeless baby.

[MammaLysha]

um, how is an abortion a solution to a stillborn....? gonna kill it twice?

To clean out the uterus. No sense in going through more pregnancy than is necessary to facilitate life.

[Oldcrow]

if you know that the baby is going to be born stillborn, you can opt to have a termination instead of giving birth to a lifeless baby.

ok cool, I have no problem with that...but forgive my lack of knowledge on the specifics of this, but how do you terminate something that is already terminated?

[Oldcrow]

I just saw an old stat....1.31 million abortions in 2000.....anyone in their right mind want to tell me that the majority of those weren't done as a means of birth control? Or were they due to rape, birth defect, incest, etc? If the latter is the case, the media is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind on this one...

[Anon1]

thanks handsome..just my feelings on the subject..



at the risk of sounding like an idiot, i'm not understanding your question.

edit: i understand what you're asking, just not sure where you're going with this...no mention of abortion in the constitution means there shouldn't be any whatsoever?

Nope.

Whats the 10th amendment say about issues not covered in the constitution?

[Anon1]

The logic is here:

I didn't say anything about deserving something when you created the situation. As we all know, there are situations where a woman gets pregnant when she didn't have a choice. Also, there are pregnancies that need to be terminated due to horrible birth defects, stillborns, etc. I also don't mean that it should be free, you want an abortion, you pay for it. I'm not asking for the federal government to fund it, merely for it to remain legal so that licensed medical professionals can conduct the procedure.

As for the dudes, I'm in agreement. If you don't want to have a child, don't. Give the child to the mother, and all rights that come along with the child (and vice versa). No pay, no play. I'm pretty sure a man can choose to walk away by termination of paternal rights, not 100% certain though.

I completely agree with Sara too. It's not a means to end it 17 times. But I don't know many women who have an abortion more than once, as far as I know it rocks you pretty hard.

Again, do you support the constitution as written? Yes or no?

[Anon1]

To clean out the uterus. No sense in going through more pregnancy than is necessary to facilitate life.

Thats not an abortion, it's a DNC.

[Anon1]

I just saw an old stat....1.31 million abortions in 2000.....anyone in their right mind want to tell me that the majority of those weren't done as a means of birth control? Or were they due to rape, birth defect, incest, etc? If the latter is the case, the media is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind on this one...

I wonder how much higher that stat is with the new abortion pills? From reading texts from last night it seems to be all the rage among college aged girls.

[MammaLysha]

Again, do you support the constitution as written? Yes or no?
Before or after amendments? (no sarcasm)


Thats not an abortion, it's a DNC.
True.


Nope.

Whats the 10th amendment say about issues not covered in the constitution?
That the States or the people will have the power to govern said issues.

[Bogey]

why do they deserveanything? Really, what is the logic that says because you fucked up, you deserve to be treated with some special treatment that relieves you of the circumstance you created? By that logic, a man who "fucks up" and fathers a child should have the same special treatment available to avail him of having his pay robbed for the next 18 years....but yet when it comes to THAT aspect of the issue, all of a sudden, this freedom of choice is tossed out the window......it's lopsided horseshit like everything else.

I've been talking about this for years.



As for the dudes, I'm in agreement. If you don't want to have a child, don't. Give the child to the mother, and all rights that come along with the child (and vice versa). No pay, no play. I'm pretty sure a man can choose to walk away by termination of paternal rights, not 100% certain though.

I've never heard of this happening. Termination of parental rights is usually when the guardian(s) of a child essentially give up their custody of a child. It can't be used to get out of child support unless the other person involved signs off on it, which is pretty doubtful if the situation arises.

[Glenndle]

This thread needs to be moved.

[Oldcrow]

This thread needs to be moved.

hahahaha no shit right?

[MammaLysha]

I've never heard of this happening. Termination of parental rights is usually when the guardian(s) of a child essentially give up their custody of a child. It can't be used to get out of child support unless the other person involved signs off on it, which is pretty doubtful if the situation arises.
Gotta get a little personal on this one. I would agree to the relinquishment of rights in a heartbeat if the other half would do it. I don't get child support, nor have I ever.

[Anon1]

Before or after amendments? (no sarcasm)


True.


That the States or the people will have the power to govern said issues.

Ammendments count, as far as I am concerned they should be the only way of adding powers to the fedral gov't, unlike the legislation they do now over and above their legal powers.

Now for my actual belief, which I have avoided giving until now. I think the constitution is clear. Abortion is never mentioned. Therefore it's a states rights issue. Shouldn't be decided at the federal level.

Personally I'm pro-choice. At a state level.

[MazelTovCocktail]

ok cool, I have no problem with that...but forgive my lack of knowledge on the specifics of this, but how do you terminate something that is already terminated?

you're obviously not aborting a child, you're just terminating the pregnancy to avoid giving birth to one which will be lifeless..i don't know all the specifics myself here either..


Nope.

Whats the 10th amendment say about issues not covered in the constitution?





That the States or the people will have the power to govern said issues.

tim, i'm in no way, shape or form any kind of constitutional buff, so you're gonna have to help me out here with what you're getting at...

[MammaLysha]

Ammendments count, as far as I am concerned they should be the only way of adding powers to the fedral gov't, unlike the legislation they do now over and above their legal powers.

Now for my actual belief, which I have avoided giving until now. I think the constitution is clear. Abortion is never mentioned. Therefore it's a states rights issue. Shouldn't be decided at the federal level.

Personally I'm pro-choice. At a state level.
Gotcha, then yes.

That's perfectly fine with me. The people of each state can decide how they feel. I just believe the option should remain open. This would serve that purpose just fine.

[Anon1]

you're obviously not aborting a child, you're just terminating the pregnancy to avoid giving birth to one which will be lifeless..i don't know all the specifics myself here either..





tim, i'm in no way, shape or form any kind of constitutional buff, so you're gonna have to help me out here with what you're getting at...

Any powers not specifically granted the to federal government and enumerated in the constitution are denied them. they aren't supposed to legislate on ANYTHING thats not mentioned by name in there.

The 10th says that anything outside the scope of the constitution falls to the states or the people. That means it would be up to individual states to create abortion legislation in our form of government (well the way its supposed to work). That way if you live in some conservative state the laws will reflect your beliefs, don't like it move to Cali or NY or IL. That's the way it was supposed to be here.

[MazelTovCocktail]

Any powers not specifically granted the to federal government and enumerated in the constitution are denied them. they aren't supposed to legislate on ANYTHING thats not mentioned by name in there.

The 10th says that anything outside the scope of the constitution falls to the states or the people. That means it would be up to individual states to create abortion legislation in our form of government (well the way its supposed to work). That way if you live in some conservative state the laws will reflect your beliefs, don't like it move to Cali or NY or IL. That's the way it was supposed to be here.

sonovah'crap, why you gotta make me feel dumb :( totally agree with that....

[Anon1]

Gotcha, then yes.

That's perfectly fine with me. The people of each state can decide how they feel. I just believe the option should remain open. This would serve that purpose just fine.

Well, I think you'd see several states ban it outright (Utah and a couple of others have tried and been struck down by the SCOTUS), I also think you would see several states (NY and Cali in particular) moving to open late term abortions, which I have a major problem with. Of course with my all my guns and beliefs, i'll never be living in either of those places again (I've lived in both).

[Bogey]

Gotta get a little personal on this one. I would agree to the relinquishment of rights in a heartbeat if the other half would do it. I don't get child support, nor have I ever.

Let's be real-there's a lot more dad's forced to pay child support than women willing to give it up.

Just because you're an ethical person doesn't mean that most others are.


And yeah, this thread has probably wound up in the politics section.

[TACO!]

you guys are wise as fuck. i'm gonna sit back and learn.

[Shawn P]

I've always said that it's a woman body, she's free to do whatever she pleases in respects to abortion, but that dosen't make the act of abortion any less morally repugnant in my eyes.

[Chicagogirl773]

I found this looking for the statistics found in Freakenomics, but it kind of just pushes all that out the window and then stomps it.

http://www.isteve.com/freakonomics_fiasco.htm

[MammaLysha]

I found this looking for the statistics found in Freakenomics, but it kind of just pushes all that out the window and then stomps it.

http://www.isteve.com/freakonomics_fiasco.htm

Wow. Yep. Makes a lot of sense though.

[Anon1]

I found this looking for the statistics found in Freakenomics, but it kind of just pushes all that out the window and then stomps it.

http://www.isteve.com/freakonomics_fiasco.htm

I had heard the abortion section was flawed by I had no idea it was that serious.

[Danibyrd]

Thats a load of shit, in essence you are saying that if we don't fund abortion and birth control, all those kids will end up in prison...show me the research and stats on that one....somthin tells me I'll be waiting for a while for your answer. And all this talk about pregnancies needing to be terminated because of defects, abortion due to rape, etc. Are you folks serious?? Again, lets see the stats on this...if anyone here thinks the majority of abortions in this country AREN'T done as a means of oops, I fucked up birth control, I got some prime real estate in Florida to sell ya.

edit: you said most abortions aren't done as a means of birth control...then what reason is behind them then? Rape? Birth Defects?Incest? Funny, if that were the case it would seem we would be hearing about the epidemic of rape and incest sweeping the country and the skyrocketing raise in birth defects...what color is the sky in your little world?


STats? I don't know about that, but I got experience- like my family and my own Uncle IN prison. And I was a kid in the system b/c my mom was too f'd up to parent.

It's situations like these that are prevented by available birth control. Contraceptives and abortions are very different topics and I will not lump them together as you seem intent on doing. I believe with abortion that every one has a particular opinion which is pretty much set. So, I have tried to tiptoe around that. If you wanna argue the importance of, say, free condoms or reduced costs pill- than I'm putting on my frickin gloves.

And FYI: Most women that I KNOW who had abortions were not regular abortion patients. It really isn't like that. They were "oops" but the choice was a hard one to make for them and the experience is often very traumatic, one they weren't eager to endure again.

[RVSkin]

thank the lord i have a penis

[RVSkin]

oh and what does the h in "jesus h christ" stand for?

[Swagger]

Could it also be that someone would choose something like this for any number of reasons such as: A - the possibility that the law there requires doctors to notify parents of an underage patient and so, for the right amount of money, this could be kept hush hush, B - some women feel threatened by the presence of pro-life demonstrators outside a legit planned parenthood clinic to not want to get real, trained professional help and would resort to someone not on the radar of some psycho that will, ironically, kill you in the name of pro-life. And because youve chosen to come to a place like this, to keep yourself inconspicuous, you wouldn't dare say anything about what the "doc" will do with your discarded fetus...or maybe I'm totally wrong. :|

For that exact reason here in Melbourne the Royal Childrens Hospital does free abortions for girls under 18. If that is the case over there the government need to sort it out fast.

[Martina]

Just think about this next time someone says abortion should be illegal. Might as well leave it as is, so that there are some decent clinics around.

I wonder how many girls come out of there with horrible diseases. Hell, or not come out at all, like the girl they caused an overdose on.

Really- because abortions are legal and this is the product of them....blood on the floor and fetuses in jars.

I'll bet you this is a clinic that takes medicaid and/or has a low out of pocket rate. You get what you pay for.

[Danibyrd]

Really- because abortions are legal and this is the product of them....blood on the floor and fetuses in jars.

I'll bet you this is a clinic that takes medicaid and/or has a low out of pocket rate. You get what you pay for.

This is not the product of them. This is an exception.

[Oldcrow]

STats? I don't know about that, but I got experience- like my family and my own Uncle IN prison. And I was a kid in the system b/c my mom was too f'd up to parent.

It's situations like these that are prevented by available birth control. Contraceptives and abortions are very different topics and I will not lump them together as you seem intent on doing. I believe with abortion that every one has a particular opinion which is pretty much set. So, I have tried to tiptoe around that. If you wanna argue the importance of, say, free condoms or reduced costs pill- than I'm putting on my frickin gloves.

And FYI: Most women that I KNOW who had abortions were not regular abortion patients. It really isn't like that. They were "oops" but the choice was a hard one to make for them and the experience is often very traumatic, one they weren't eager to endure again.

Listen, I ain't tryin to diminish your or anyone elses personal experiences, that isn't the point. I'm also not saying that having an abortion is an easy choice for a woman. The point you're missing here is this, YOU made the claim that "most abortions aren't done as a means of birth control" and that simply isn't true. You say I'm lumping contraceptives in with birth control...they go hand in hand. Do contraceptives fail? Of course, but again if you honestly believe that 1.31 million abortions in one year were the result of rape, incest, unavoidable birth defects or failed contraceptives, well, I'm sorry but that defies all logic....I'm not going to get into the "free" condoms and reduced cost birth control pills and all that. You have a socialist utopian view and to argue the issue with you in that regard would be pointless. Suffice it to say, you seem to believe that Govt. should assume the role of the big Mommy who provides for and cares for us with "free" shit....well, ain't nothin free..at some point along the lines someone is footin the bill...and if myself or anyone else has a moral or otherwise objection to abortion, then we should not be forced by the heavy hand of the nanny state to fund it. You keep bringing up prison and shit, yet the odd thing is that in my life most folks who are ardently prochoice are also ardently opposed to the death penalty....you have no problem with having an abortion, citing your rights and your body and blah blah, but when it comes to a convicted pedophile child murderer, we have to respect his right to life....makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You can call me whatever ya wish...but with "freedom" and "choice" comes RESPONSIBILITY...buy a fuckin rubber, get on the pill or do any number of the other 10,000 methods out there to prevent a pregnancy and maybe this issue might just go away..or at least diminish to a degree.

[Danibyrd]

Listen, I ain't tryin to diminish your or anyone elses personal experiences, that isn't the point. I'm also not saying that having an abortion is an easy choice for a woman. The point you're missing here is this, YOU made the claim that "most abortions aren't done as a means of birth control" and that simply isn't true. You say I'm lumping contraceptives in with birth control...they go hand in hand. Do contraceptives fail? Of course, but again if you honestly believe that 1.31 million abortions in one year were the result of rape, incest, unavoidable birth defects or failed contraceptives, well, I'm sorry but that defies all logic....I'm not going to get into the "free" condoms and reduced cost birth control pills and all that. You have a socialist utopian view and to argue the issue with you in that regard would be pointless. Suffice it to say, you seem to believe that Govt. should assume the role of the big Mommy who provides for and cares for us with "free" shit....well, ain't nothin free..at some point along the lines someone is footin the bill...and if myself or anyone else has a moral or otherwise objection to abortion, then we should not be forced by the heavy hand of the nanny state to fund it. You keep bringing up prison and shit, yet the odd thing is that in my life most folks who are ardently prochoice are also ardently opposed to the death penalty....you have no problem with having an abortion, citing your rights and your body and blah blah, but when it comes to a convicted pedophile child murderer, we have to respect his right to life....makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You can call me whatever ya wish...but with "freedom" and "choice" comes RESPONSIBILITY...buy a fuckin rubber, get on the pill or do any number of the other 10,000 methods out there to prevent a pregnancy and maybe this issue might just go away..or at least diminish to a degree.

Alright. I should have worded this differently


I never said this or alluded to this. You drew this connection.

I realize its not free, and I don't think the government should be my Mommy. I DO believe that we, as a society have an obligation to help the less fortunate of our society- like disabled and poor. If you don't, the later costs are worse, and I didn't mean just prison. I mean shuffling kids through the courts/fosterhomes/group homes, all the paperwork- energy chasing truant schoolkids, petty theft, and for some, prison. Also, these individuals often strain the system by lacking the skills to be self-sufficient contributing members of society. A few little programs in the early years funded by the people does wonders in helping people move upward. But I think we have different views altogether regarding politics and you aren't going to change nor am I, so this is a pointless exchange. I am not a hard line Socialist. But libraries are a Socialist institution and I like libraries. Free public school. Etc. In fact, America's social programs have been dramatically cut back in the last decade or so, but, we used to have lot more.

This is not me. So can it.

This I agree with 100%, which is why I've never had to have an abortion. However, I have been support for a few women who needed abortions and having it available is not something I will back down on.

[Swagger]

Listen, I ain't tryin to diminish your or anyone elses personal experiences, that isn't the point. I'm also not saying that having an abortion is an easy choice for a woman. The point you're missing here is this, YOU made the claim that "most abortions aren't done as a means of birth control" and that simply isn't true. You say I'm lumping contraceptives in with birth control...they go hand in hand. Do contraceptives fail? Of course, but again if you honestly believe that 1.31 million abortions in one year were the result of rape, incest, unavoidable birth defects or failed contraceptives, well, I'm sorry but that defies all logic....I'm not going to get into the "free" condoms and reduced cost birth control pills and all that. You have a socialist utopian view and to argue the issue with you in that regard would be pointless. Suffice it to say, you seem to believe that Govt. should assume the role of the big Mommy who provides for and cares for us with "free" shit....well, ain't nothin free..at some point along the lines someone is footin the bill...and if myself or anyone else has a moral or otherwise objection to abortion, then we should not be forced by the heavy hand of the nanny state to fund it. You keep bringing up prison and shit, yet the odd thing is that in my life most folks who are ardently prochoice are also ardently opposed to the death penalty....you have no problem with having an abortion, citing your rights and your body and blah blah, but when it comes to a convicted pedophile child murderer, we have to respect his right to life....makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You can call me whatever ya wish...but with "freedom" and "choice" comes RESPONSIBILITY...buy a fuckin rubber, get on the pill or do any number of the other 10,000 methods out there to prevent a pregnancy and maybe this issue might just go away..or at least diminish to a degree.

I have to say I agree with you. Abortions aren't a form of contraception but it does seem like alot of people use it like one. For example a woman I know doesn't use any contraception because her boyfriend doesn't want her to go on the pill because she might gain weight and he doesn't use condoms because he doesn't like them so they just get an abortion every time it goes wrong. Which personally I think is fucked up. I'm sure alot of women think it over carefully and do realise the severity of the situation before getting one but the statistics do seem to point towards alot of irresponsibility from alot of people when it's comes to abortion.

[Oldcrow]

[/COLOR]

Alright. I should have worded this differently


I never said this or alluded to this. You drew this connection.

I realize its not free, and I don't think the government should be my Mommy. I DO believe that we, as a society have an obligation to help the less fortunate of our society- like disabled and poor. If you don't, the later costs are worse, and I didn't mean just prison. I mean shuffling kids through the courts/fosterhomes/group homes, all the paperwork- energy chasing truant schoolkids, petty theft, and for some, prison. Also, these individuals often strain the system by lacking the skills to be self-sufficient contributing members of society. A few little programs in the early years funded by the people does wonders in helping people move upward. But I think we have different views altogether regarding politics and you aren't going to change nor am I, so this is a pointless exchange. I am not a hard line Socialist. But libraries are a Socialist institution and I like libraries. Free public school. Etc. In fact, America's social programs have been dramatically cut back in the last decade or so, but, we used to have lot more.

This is not me. So can it.

This I agree with 100%, which is why I've never had to have an abortion. However, I have been support for a few women who needed abortions and having it available is not something I will back down on.

well, we'll just have to agree to disagree..I am not obligated to help anyone who I don't want to help. While this country is the most charitable and generous on the face of the earth, helping the poor and 'unfortunate" should not be forced upon me by law...it's not anywhere in our founding documents that we are obligated to help anyone...you seem to be taking a morality stance on this and I have no problem with that, but by forcing that morality on everyone, you are just as guilty as those who claim abortion should be banned based on the issue of morality....but thats how lefties operate and thats well established....hypocrisy and self indulgence be damned....do as we SAY.

I never said you were one who opposed the death penalty while espousing the virtue of abortion, i was merely offering a bit of personal insight, so no my dear, YOU can it.
As was pointed out pages ago, this issue comes down to States Rights..it is no more legal and Constitutional for the Govt. to say abortion is legal nation wide, than it would be for them to claim it is illegal nation wide..it is not in there power to make the claim either way, and to block any State legislation to change the law for themselves.

[MazelTovCocktail]

well, we'll just have to agree to disagree..

this site would shut down in less than a day if that happened!!!

[Oldcrow]

this site would shut down in less than a day if that happened!!!

hahaha, well it would damn sure come to a grinding halt wouldn't it?

[Al Swearengen]

[/COLOR]

Alright. I should have worded this differently


I never said this or alluded to this. You drew this connection.

I realize its not free, and I don't think the government should be my Mommy. I DO believe that we, as a society have an obligation to help the less fortunate of our society- like disabled and poor. If you don't, the later costs are worse, and I didn't mean just prison. I mean shuffling kids through the courts/fosterhomes/group homes, all the paperwork- energy chasing truant schoolkids, petty theft, and for some, prison. Also, these individuals often strain the system by lacking the skills to be self-sufficient contributing members of society. A few little programs in the early years funded by the people does wonders in helping people move upward. But I think we have different views altogether regarding politics and you aren't going to change nor am I, so this is a pointless exchange. I am not a hard line Socialist. But libraries are a Socialist institution and I like libraries. Free public school. Etc. In fact, America's social programs have been dramatically cut back in the last decade or so, but, we used to have lot more.

This is not me. So can it.

This I agree with 100%, which is why I've never had to have an abortion. However, I have been support for a few women who needed abortions and having it available is not something I will back down on.


if you feel obligated to help "less fortunate people", by all means go ahead by yourself. don't fucking impose on me and others like me to do the same. all these fucktards feel like they're entitled to shit. How? And by what fucking logic are they entitled to anything? I'd say the majority of these scumbags getting abortions should be aborted themselves. Like a few others alluded to in this thread, the abortion system is a fucking joke when it's the womans choice only and the man has no say in it whatsoever.

[pinnskin]

I have to say I agree with you. Abortions aren't a form of contraception but it does seem like alot of people use it like one. For example a woman I know doesn't use any contraception because her boyfriend doesn't want her to go on the pill because she might gain weight and he doesn't use condoms because he doesn't like them so they just get an abortion every time it goes wrong. Which personally I think is fucked up. I'm sure alot of women think it over carefully and do realise the severity of the situation before getting one but the statistics do seem to point towards alot of irresponsibility from alot of people when it's comes to abortion.

That's honestly one of the most fucked up things I've ever heard. Both of those people should be beaten.

[pinnskin]

oh and what does the h in "jesus h christ" stand for?

Harold.

[Hexxx]

Harold.

bugger i thought it was Horatio

[Branded]

I realize its not free, and I don't think the government should be my [I]Mommy[I]. I DO believe that we, as a society have an obligation to help the less fortunate of our society- like disabled and poor.

So if society is required to be altruistic (which I partially disagree with) is it virtuous for the government to do it for us?

You ever wonder why CA is broke?

Seems I missed a pretty good thread here...

[Swagger]

So if society is required to be altruistic (which I partially disagree with) is it virtuous for the government to do it for us?

You ever wonder why CA is broke?

Seems I missed a pretty good thread here...

It shouldn't be forced upon people but people should feel that they have to do it anyway. From year seven to year 10 I was at a private school, to be there means my parents are doing pretty well money wise. So me and a friend ended up incharge of a community service team who went to soup kitchens and homeless shelters and cooked and cleaned a couple times a month. I'm not saying this to make myself look like a saint but that should be the view that everybody has. If you pick up those that fall behind the richest of the rich aren't as well off as they could be but the gap between poor and rich shrink and not as many people die on the street. People say survival of the fittest and blah blah blah but when was the last time you saw a male lion ask permission before mating with a lioness. or when did you see a court unviolently sort out problems between two monkeys? The point I'm making is there are differences in our behaviour than to animals and those differences are what has made mankind what it is today. You wouldn't rape a girl just because you wanted a kid and in the same way you shouldn't leave people to die just because you can't be fucked helping. I kind of went off on a tangent there but oh well.

[Branded]

It shouldn't be forced upon people but people should feel that they have to do it anyway. From year seven to year 10 I was at a private school, to be there means my parents are doing pretty well money wise. So me and a friend ended up incharge of a community service team who went to soup kitchens and homeless shelters and cooked and cleaned a couple times a month. I'm not saying this to make myself look like a saint but that should be the view that everybody has. If you pick up those that fall behind the richest of the rich aren't as well off as they could be but the gap between poor and rich shrink and not as many people die on the street. People say survival of the fittest and blah blah blah but when was the last time you saw a male lion ask permission before mating with a lioness. or when did you see a court unviolently sort out problems between two monkeys? The point I'm making is there are differences in our behaviour than to animals and those differences are what has made mankind what it is today. You wouldn't rape a girl just because you wanted a kid and in the same way you shouldn't leave people to die just because you can't be fucked helping. I kind of went off on a tangent there but oh well.

I'm glad you see it as not the government's responsibility. I've lived in low places my entire life and have been homeless myself for a short period. A huge percentage of people who are homeless have mental issues and really couldn't function on the job. A lot of them are backstabbing, junkies who would steal money from hardworking people at the drop of a hat. I believe in the free market to reward hard work and self interest. Making a sandwich for the guy who will break into your car after he eats it is not helping anybody, not even the fella himself. I don't have to feel sorry for anybody besides the people I love and the ones who show me respect, plain and simple.

[Swagger]

I'm glad you see it as not the government's responsibility. I've lived in low places my entire life and have been homeless myself for a short period. A huge percentage of people who are homeless have mental issues and really couldn't function on the job. A lot of them are backstabbing, junkies who would steal money from hardworking people at the drop of a hat. I believe in the free market to reward hard work and self interest. Making a sandwich for the guy who will break into your car after he eats it is not helping anybody, not even the fella himself. I don't have to feel sorry for anybody besides the people I love and the ones who show me respect, plain and simple.

Considering your situation I can respect your oppinion on this alot more than most people. I am well aware of the role mental illness plays and I have to admitt that suffering from psychosis and depression myself it makes me biased and I suppose more willing to help those who slip through the cracks. I mean, when I was attacked by police and dragged to a psych ward I spat on my dad on the way to the cop car and didn't talk to my parents for a long while but in retrospect they helped how they knew how and if they hadn't I could have ended up on the street, unmedicated and trying to fight things that weren't there. Because of this I truely feel for the ones who didn't have anybody to make that phone call and get help for them. Mind you I started helping before any mental illness in me was known of.

But like you said a lot of people on the street are violent and as lame as it may sound just outright mean people. Example, every time I go into the city there is a guy sitting outside a maccas with a guitar. He used to tell me he loved the way I dress and he'd give me songs to pick from for him to play for me so I used to give him some money when I could. Now I bring enough to buy myself and him lunch because he's down on his luck and a genuinly nice person. On the other hand I've had homeless people pull knives on me or start throwing stuff at me and surrounding me to get shit. These people I want to help but I never will simply because I can't without getting fucked up myself.

[Branded]

Considering your situation I can respect your oppinion on this alot more than most people. I am well aware of the role mental illness plays and I have to admitt that suffering from psychosis and depression myself it makes me biased and I suppose more willing to help those who slip through the cracks. I mean, when I was attacked by police and dragged to a psych ward I spat on my dad on the way to the cop car and didn't talk to my parents for a long while but in retrospect they helped how they knew how and if they hadn't I could have ended up on the street, unmedicated and trying to fight things that weren't there. Because of this I truely feel for the ones who didn't have anybody to make that phone call and get help for them. Mind you I started helping before any mental illness in me was known of.

But like you said a lot of people on the street are violent and as lame as it may sound just outright mean people. Example, every time I go into the city there is a guy sitting outside a maccas with a guitar. He used to tell me he loved the way I dress and he'd give me songs to pick from for him to play for me so I used to give him some money when I could. Now I bring enough to buy myself and him lunch because he's down on his luck and a genuinly nice person. On the other hand I've had homeless people pull knives on me or start throwing stuff at me and surrounding me to get shit. These people I want to help but I never will simply because I can't without getting fucked up myself.

Honestly, I call bullshit on a lot of medication. Intuitively thinking, because I ain't a doctor, I assume most people obtain the ability to deal with their mental issues on their own. It ain't directed at insulting you but, wouldn't it be more inspiring for you to fight your problem without a crutch?

One guy I knew pretty well died a little while ago. He used to get seizures every once and a while. He ended up having one while walking back to his spot underneath this bridge, he wandered himself into the road while having a seizure and got hit by a car. He was a serious alcoholic and blamed his seizures on why he was homeless. But the reality of it was that if he put down the fuckin bottle for a day he could of gotten a job no problem. Soup kitchens and whatnot enable a lot of these types to perpetuate their lifestyle and end up dieing that way.

[Swagger]

Honestly, I call bullshit on a lot of medication. Intuitively thinking, because I ain't a doctor, I assume most people obtain the ability to deal with their mental issues on their own. It ain't directed at insulting you but, wouldn't it be more inspiring for you to fight your problem without a crutch?

One guy I knew pretty well died a little while ago. He used to get seizures every once and a while. He ended up having one while walking back to his spot underneath this bridge, he wandered himself into the road while having a seizure and got hit by a car. He was a serious alcoholic and blamed his seizures on why he was homeless. But the reality of it was that if he put down the fuckin bottle for a day he could of gotten a job no problem. Soup kitchens and whatnot enable a lot of these types to perpetuate their lifestyle and end up dieing that way.

Even if your dig at meds was directed at me I don't really care. We're having a discussion like adults so it's fine. It's when people get immature about it that pisses me off. I hate my medication, I truely truely hate it but I know it helps. What makes psychosis diferent to things like depression is that right now I could tell you that the 20+ cops I once saw storming my house to get me aren't there. But when it's happening no matter how much I know they're hallucinations when I'm okay when I see them they're are completely 100% real and they are 100% trying to hurt me and my family. No matter what I say or do, or when I brush my teeth or wash my hands or shave and my reflection pulls out a handgun and I see myself splatter my brains all over my bathroom. The other thing is that like schizopherenia with every episode it is harder to cure and the episodes become more intense and more common. Strong will power has nothing to do with it. So medication is very neccesary. While there are things like depression and stuff that in some cases, but not all, medication woudl be just as helpful as therapy and stuff. Anyway, If 90% of the people that use soup kitchens could do better but choose not to because I give them a free pass for the day I don't care if it means I'm helping the 10% with terrible illnesses that can't do any better. In the same way I don't care if doctors take the lazy way out with some meds as long as that means those that need it and wont improve without it can get their hands on them.

[Branded]

Even if your dig at meds was directed at me I don't really care. We're having a discussion like adults so it's fine. It's when people get immature about it that pisses me off. I hate my medication, I truely truely hate it but I know it helps. What makes psychosis diferent to things like depression is that right now I could tell you that the 20+ cops I once saw storming my house to get me aren't there. But when it's happening no matter how much I know they're hallucinations when I'm okay when I see them they're are completely 100% real and they are 100% trying to hurt me and my family. No matter what I say or do, or when I brush my teeth or wash my hands or shave and my reflection pulls out a handgun and I see myself splatter my brains all over my bathroom. The other thing is that like schizopherenia with every episode it is harder to cure and the episodes become more intense and more common. Strong will power has nothing to do with it. So medication is very neccesary. While there are things like depression and stuff that in some cases, but not all, medication woudl be just as helpful as therapy and stuff. Anyway, If 90% of the people that use soup kitchens could do better but choose not to because I give them a free pass for the day I don't care if it means I'm helping the 10% with terrible illnesses that can't do any better. In the same way I don't care if doctors take the lazy way out with some meds as long as that means those that need it and wont improve without it can get their hands on them.

If it works for you, then fine, good luck to ya. I'm in no place to tell someone what to do with their meds.

Regarding helping that 10%. I don't think there would be that 90% out there if handouts were so plentiful, that is essentially what I'm gettin at. It is a little idealist for me to say there would be no more homeless if I got my way, but I feel it would surely solve a lot of issues. I just hate seeing being people quick to claim their free lunch but too idle to take up their own responsibilities.

[Swagger]

If it works for you, then fine, good luck to ya. I'm in no place to tell someone what to do with their meds.

Regarding helping that 10%. I don't think there would be that 90% out there if handouts were so plentiful, that is essentially what I'm gettin at. It is a little idealist for me to say there would be no more homeless if I got my way, but I feel it would surely solve a lot of issues. I just hate seeing being people quick to claim their free lunch but too idle to take up their own responsibilities.

That does sound reasonable to me but I suppose we both look at what helping is from different sides and I don't think either of us will change our minds but it was good to talk to somebody on the internet without it turning into a retarded flame war. I enjoyed hearing your side of it.