Ireland been United

[SWIFTY]

OK as there is a few Irish on here now & quite a lot UK heads
Do you think now with the state of play in N.Ireland that England will hand over the 6 counties in the next 10 years , I think that the way things have progressed in the last 10yrs , that its looking more like it. Probably the biggest stumbling block would be the Republics stability , uploading the 6 counties onto an already unstable country would not work finically ,

[Pagal]

OK as there is a few Irish on here now & quite a lot UK heads
Do you think now with the state of play in N.Ireland that England will hand over the 6 counties in the next 10 years , I think that the way things have progressed in the last 10yrs , that its looking more like it. Probably the biggest stumbling block would be the Republics stability , uploading the 6 counties onto an already unstable country would not work finically ,

Simple answer, in the next 10 years, no. The next 50 maybe.

I wonder how much of a shit the average Eire citizen actually cares these days anyway.

I know plenty of Irish people, it's hardly the number one topic of conversation. I'm sure most would, romantically, like the idea of a United Ireland, but couldn't really face the harsh reality, especially when there'd be a large (angry) minority in their midst.

I know things are far from perfect at the moment, but there seems to be grounds for optimism for the future.

[Danny_Mc]

Nah it ain't gonna happen. Certainly not in the next ten years anyway! I never thought it would get to the point where the British army are no longer a visible force on the streets and where there are no longer border checkpoints but the UK will never just give back those six counties.

[Stance]

I sincerely hope Ireland can unite sooner rather than later. This is mainly because I want to see Ireland form a superpower Ireland then attack Wales. Will this happen?

[Danny_Mc]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_g8BQFSPckxk/Sht06sQWb6I/AAAAAAAAArs/M6RgMkAHc4A/s400/Ethan.jpg
That'll be the day

[Clockwork]

I read awhile back that Great Britain and Ireland were at one time one land mass when the water was lower.

Wouldn't that shake things up a bit if it happened again.

[Pagal]

I read awhile back that Great Britain and Ireland were at one time one land mass when the water was lower.

Wouldn't that shake things up a bit if it happened again.

You've never been to Kilburn, have you ;)

[Clockwork]

You've never been to Kilburn, have you ;)

I've been to London but never heard of Kilburn, what's it about?

[WestBankChris]

Simple answer, in the next 10 years, no. The next 50 maybe.

I wonder how much of a shit the average Eire citizen actually cares these days anyway.

I know plenty of Irish people, it's hardly the number one topic of conversation. I'm sure most would, romantically, like the idea of a United Ireland, but couldn't really face the harsh reality, especially when there'd be a large (angry) minority in their midst.

I know things are far from perfect at the moment, but there seems to be grounds for optimism for the future.

Let me strip you and a few others of a misconception. The Loyalists don't scare the Republic, never have. It's us they are worried about. Northern fenians are politicised, organised and have strong communities which are hard to fuck with. They know that the current government in Dublin and it's enslavement to the EU will not sit well with people who were essentially left behind during partition, and whose whole ideology is staunchly Nationalistic. Ulster, long before the first Saxon set foot here, was always the rebellious province. It has a unique identity. I say we make the Republic hand over Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan, the 'lost' three counties of Ulaidh, and build a big fucking wall. The Brits held on to this place to save face (the illusion that the Brits give two fucks about the planters is just that. The myth that they respect the 'democratic majority' will blow up in their face one day when a foreign majority of Muslims or others will define an artificial area and demand it cedes to a foreign nation, basically what they did with NI) the Irish walked away because Northerners are troublemakers.

Northern Ireland will go through a transitory period of joint rule and that will keep most people content, but my belief is that they hope with the charge towards multi-culturalism and the erosion of borders that Nationalism, British and Irish, will simply die. They are wrong. No one here lost family, lost years of their lives, to watch this island become a multi-cultural loose federation of individuals. Neither us or the Loyalists.

[WestBankChris]

I've been to London but never heard of Kilburn, what's it about?

It's a heavily Irish area. Though, and here we wander into the realms of irony, they still look on the Irish as 'immigrants'. The first Irish Gael settlement in Southern England was in the 2nd century, the first Anglo-Saxons didn't set foot on that soil til the 5th century. I'll let them do the maths as to who is the immigrant.

[Pagal]

Let me strip you and a few others of a misconception. The Loyalists don't scare the Republic, never have. It's us they are worried about. Northern fenians are politicised, organised and have strong communities which are hard to fuck with. They know that the current government in Dublin and it's enslavement to the EU will not sit well with people who were essentially left behind during partition, and whose whole ideology is staunchly Nationalistic. Ulster, long before the first Saxon set foot here, was always the rebellious province. It has a unique identity. I say we make the Republic hand over Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan, the 'lost' three counties of Ulaidh, and build a big fucking wall. The Brits held on to this place to save face (the illusion that the Brits give two fucks about the planters is just that. The myth that they respect the 'democratic majority' will blow up in their face one day when a foreign majority of Muslims or others will define an artificial area and demand it cedes to a foreign nation, basically what they did with NI) the Irish walked away because Northerners are troublemakers.

Northern Ireland will go through a transitory period of joint rule and that will keep most people content, but my belief is that they hope with the charge towards multi-culturalism and the erosion of borders that Nationalism, British and Irish, will simply die. They are wrong. No one here lost family, lost years of their lives, to watch this island become a multi-cultural loose federation of individuals. Neither us or the Loyalists.

OK, fair point. Wasn't suggesting that the Republic was shitting itself over it. I think you're right, the people in the North ARE heavily politicised, which is why I said I know lots of Irish people who don't seem to give a shit about a united Ireland (they're all from the South).

Much as I respect a lot of what you have to say, you seem to have a longing to keep some sort of superior racial blood-line, something I find a bit disturbing.

At least as an Englishman I know that I'm a fucking mongrel (Saxon, Angel, Jute, Dane, Norman, Celt etc, etc). I'm under know illusion that I'm anything other than the product of invasions and immigration.

If you manage to find a way of preserving your heritage, that doesn't involve burning immigrants out of their house's and/or churches where they've sought refuge, please let me know. And before you say it, I know that many of these acts have been carried out by 'Loyalists', but my point remains, what are you going to do to 'keep your culture'?

[Delboy]

No surrender.

Well.. not for 10 years atleast.

[WestBankChris]

OK, fair point. Wasn't suggesting that the Republic was shitting itself over it. I think you're right, the people in the North ARE heavily politicised, which is why I said I know lots of Irish people who don't seem to give a shit about a united Ireland (they're all from the South).

Much as I respect a lot of what you have to say, you seem to have a longing to keep some sort of superior racial blood-line, something I find a bit disturbing.

At least as an Englishman I know that I'm a fucking mongrel (Saxon, Angel, Jute, Dane, Norman, Celt etc, etc). I'm under know illusion that I'm anything other than the product of invasions and immigration.

If you manage to find a way of preserving your heritage, that doesn't involve burning immigrants out of their house's and/or churches where they've sought refuge, please let me know. And before you say it, I know that many of these acts have been carried out by 'Loyalists', but my point remains, what are you going to do to 'keep your culture'?

Simple things. The basic acts of keeping the family name alive, learning to speak Gaelic, passing on tales of where we came from and continuing the family tradition of digging up all and every piece of history we can. We have gaps between the arrival of my paternal line and the uprising of Cathir O'Doherty in 1608. My children are taught their heritage, their bedtime stories come from Norse sagas and Gaelic history and mythology. Understand that this is not about hostility towards others, but about continuity. I find the Calvinist ultra-individualism abhorrent. I am about looking after 'my own', not attacking others for not being part of that extended community. The heart of Nationalism is an awareness of where you are from, not where everyone else is from. When multiple families do this, which they are here, those histories converge and people have a concrete foundation for their community. You build communities, you build a society which can act in a common interest. Undervaluing Nationalism and heritage has been the conscious policy of the late 20th century. Neither are good for profit.

That said, were the immigration numbers to explode here, were we to find ourselves in the position that Britain and multiple other European Nations find themselves, my strategy would have to change and would not be so benign, but thats hypothetical right now. Most of the immigration we get here is Eastern Europeans, and without them my better half wouldn't have those tasty Polish pretzels. I have no beef with them.

[Stance]

Simple things. The basic acts of keeping the family name alive, learning to speak Gaelic, passing on tales of where we came from and continuing the family tradition of digging up all and every piece of history we can. We have gaps between the arrival of my paternal line and the uprising of Cathir O'Doherty in 1608. My children are taught their heritage, their bedtime stories come from Norse sagas and Gaelic history and mythology. Understand that this is not about hostility towards others, but about continuity. I find the Calvinist ultra-individualism abhorrent. I am about looking after 'my own', not attacking others for not being part of that extended community. The heart of Nationalism is an awareness of where you are from, not where everyone else is from. When multiple families do this, which they are here, those histories converge and people have a concrete foundation for their community. You build communities, you build a society which can act in a common interest. Undervaluing Nationalism and heritage has been the conscious policy of the late 20th century. Neither are good for profit.

That said, were the immigration numbers to explode here, were we to find ourselves in the position that Britain and multiple other European Nations find themselves, my strategy would have to change and would not be so benign, but thats hypothetical right now. Most of the immigration we get here is Eastern Europeans, and without them my better half wouldn't have those tasty Polish pretzels. I have no beef with them.

I was always under the impression that Irish Nationalists are traditionally left leaning?

[SWIFTY]

if you look back at the last 15 yrs Ceasefires and decommissioning of arms
in 1994, the IRA declared an indefinite ceasefire. but , from 1995 until 1997, the l IRA called off its 1994 ceasefire because of its dissatisfaction with the state of negotiations. They re-instated the ceasefire in July 1997, and it has been in operation since then.
Now no one thought this was ever going to happen , it was something none of us visualized , then the British government released every member of both factions , yes every single paramilitary was released from goal , now who would have thought that was going to happen , Then Troops taken of the streets , outposts taken down, border rds re opened ,
Then we have Sinn fein & DUP sitting in the house of commons , and rather than the sounds of gunfire or abuse , its laughter & piss taking
I think that the IRA walked away from their armed struggle with a lot more deals , which has yet to come , at the end of the day the UK can never go back to how it was , troops on the streets , heavily armed basses on border roads , and the IRA will use that card against the government , they have enough break away groups to cause a few probs for the government if so needed

[WestBankChris]

I was always under the impression that Irish Nationalists are traditionally left leaning?

It's a broad church. There is no over riding ideology. Many threads each with their own goal. For leftists it's anti-imperialism, for 'bloodline' Nationalists it's about old school blood and soil, for liberal Nationalists it's about justice and representation. All converging in a single cause.

Both Nationalism and Loyalism contain contradictions. While flirting with NS and WN groups, the UDA flew Israeli flags and apparently was aided by Mossad in killing Irishmen. The IRA had friends in ETA, the PLO and also the Flemish Nationalist VMO, the latter also having a short working relationship with the UVF which apparently fell apart when the UVF refused to hit zionist targets for the VMO. The UVF while staunchly Loyalist has a strong working class leftist tradition, and generally a simplistic view of Loyalism exists which tars them all as conservative right wing Monarchists which is grossly inaccurate. One of Britains' less known groupings, the League of St. George, who had alleged ties to the Italian neo-fascist NAR, was sympathetic to the IRA's cause. The IRA supplied members to both sides of the Spanish Civil War, fascist and leftist. Oswald Mosley, head of the British Blackshirts, made statements sympathetic to the Irish cause.

I could go on, but Northern Irelands' troubles have never been black & white. Every ideology claims sides as their own based on their personal preference, not in the innate political direction of the movement. To portray it otherwise is political oversimplification, and usually to serve a propaganda purpose (WN's portraying the Loyalists as honest White Nationalists fighting the 'communism' of Irish Nationalism or the left portraying Irish Nationalism as oppressed leftists fighting imperialist fascism).