Public Executions

[weknowhowtolive]

Well??

[PUNISHER]

Well I'm against executions, but they should be public.

[Olde-E Fever]

Public hangings
they'll sell hot dogs and beer
public hangings
they'll be music by FEAR
at public hangings
our only hope is
public hangings
somebody get a rope

mad dogs
they're lurking in the street
mad dogs
rather steal than eat
mad dogs
lunatics with guns
mad dogs
killin just for fun

public hangings

mad dogs
hate theirselves and everyone
mad dogs
livin' by the gun
mad dogs
the lawless will abide
when they're hung out to dry

Public Hangings


but at the topic on hand...part of me says yes maybe it'll curb crime a bit and part of me says that really isn't right.

[Argyleskin]

Nope, because the way the judicial system is we would be watching a man beheaded, then two weeks later find out he was innocent.
I've seen enough death for a lifetime thank you very much. And I wouldn't want my kids flipping on the tv and seeing some guy get killed. THEY do not need to see such things.

[Packratt]

Well, generally I don't like the idea of government having the freedom to kill it's own citizens outside of situations where public safety is an immediate and obvious concern. (i.e. during an armed robbery).

But, if the people decide to give their government that right then the people ought to bear witness to what they've wrought.

btw, why isn't this in politics?

[Argyleskin]

btw, why isn't this in politics?


*Shakes a fist*

[Olde-E Fever]

great now it's in politics and my posting of song lyrics makes my post look much dumber than it was planned to be.

[PUNISHER]

Nope, because the way the judicial system is we would be watching a man beheaded, then two weeks later find out he was innocent.
I've seen enough death for a lifetime thank you very much. And I wouldn't want my kids flipping on the tv and seeing some guy get killed. THEY do not need to see such things.
Oh they definitely shouldn't be televised, that'd be ridiculous. I just meant that executions should be open to the public. You should also be 18+ to view it. I just think it's weong for the govt to decide that somebody should die, let the inmates decide that.

[CptnSpaulding]

Public hangings
they'll sell hot dogs and beer
public hangings
they'll be music by FEAR
at public hangings
our only hope is
public hangings
somebody get a rope

mad dogs
they're lurking in the street
mad dogs
rather steal than eat
mad dogs
lunatics with guns
mad dogs
killin just for fun

public hangings

mad dogs
hate theirselves and everyone
mad dogs
livin' by the gun
mad dogs
the lawless will abide
when they're hung out to dry

Public Hangings


but at the topic on hand...part of me says yes maybe it'll curb crime a bit and part of me says that really isn't right.
haha- thats the first thing that popped into mind also

[HammerHeart]

Nope, because the way the judicial system is we would be watching a man beheaded, then two weeks later find out he was innocent.
I've seen enough death for a lifetime thank you very much. And I wouldn't want my kids flipping on the tv and seeing some guy get killed. THEY do not need to see such things.

Courtrooms are there for a reason, If he's guilty..he's guilty. If not, you get the idea. All convictees should get the rope, etc...the more barbaric, the better.

[Argyleskin]

Courtrooms are there for a reason, If he's guilty..he's guilty. If not, you get the idea. All convictees should get the rope, etc...the more barbaric, the better.

How many times have we heard about people being put in wrongly for years upon years? Loads. So don't say "guilty is guilty"..there ARE some innocent people in the pokey as we speak.

[CondemnedBootBoy]

Bring back Capital Punishment!

[militarymite]

I think public hangings would work well. Very dramatic but not bloody. I think it would help with crime and restore faith in the justice system. Having people live on death row in countless prisons for as long as twenty years and then killing them is double sentencing in my view, as well cruel and unusual punishment. Sentencing someone to death for a hidious crime and not killing them makes no sense. If we're not going to execute then we should do away with the death penalty and stop this hypocritical nonsense.

[militarymite]

Nope, because the way the judicial system is we would be watching a man beheaded, then two weeks later find out he was innocent.
I've seen enough death for a lifetime thank you very much. And I wouldn't want my kids flipping on the tv and seeing some guy get killed. THEY do not need to see such things.
It would be a great way to get kids to eat their vegetables. "Johnny, if you don't finish them lima beans, I'm going to take you down there and have you executed like that man on tv!"

[Doc]

How many times have we heard about people being put in wrongly for years upon years? Loads. So don't say "guilty is guilty"..there ARE some innocent people in the pokey as we speak.

In response to that, i would like to say - how many sickos have been released from prison after serving their sentence only to go and kill again?

[WH Jay]

Fetch the noose for Paedophiles, child killers and rapists for sure...as Doc says I get a bit sick of reading about another sick fuck serving five years for grooming kids then being let out and destroying another childs life when no-one would really object if he was publicly hanging in the wind....

[Doc]

Fetch the noose for Paedophiles, child killers and rapists for sure...as Doc says I get a bit sick of reading about another sick fuck serving five years for grooming kids then being let out and destroying another childs life when no-one would really object if he was publicly hanging in the wind....

Fkn right. They have a trial, and the right to appeal to a court with higher jurisdiction. Im not saying it has never happened, but these days it is fkn hard to execute an innocent man. In jail these fuckers have a chance of parole and the chance to kill other prisoners and members of staff. Fkn experiment on 'em for a few years then gut them like rotten fish in the public square.

[caspar]

My stance on the topic is pretty much the same as my stance on the eating meat topic. As weird as that may sound.

[Scotskin]

I'm for public executions......................but there's a catch.

It has to be cases where's he's proven completely gfuilty by photographic/organic forensic evidence. None of this word-of-mouth eye-witness bullshit. Testimony's can be bought...I know, I watched PA State Troopers buy it from a guy I knew to put a friend of mine behind bars....there wasd at best circumstantial evidence against my friend....they somehow built a probable cause case on that shit.....bastards the lot of em.

But it needs to be rock-solid, un-reversible evidence. I know that's hard to come by...but then, if they can't find it they also need to give a lesser sentence than death.

One death I want to see is when we find Osama...if that dirty Afghani camel-fucker is still alive....

Another is Jane Fonda....we need to go back, formally declare Viet Nam an actual war (58,271 KIA and it's a 'police action? MY ASS!) and put that cunt to death for treason.

Thus speaketh the Ian.

[Oz.]

In response to that, i would like to say - how many sickos have been released from prison after serving their sentence only to go and kill again?
Big difference between execution in principle and making it public. And what exactly does making it public mean? Details please.

[ienjoybeer]

I'm for public executions......................but there's a catch.

It has to be cases where's he's proven completely gfuilty by photographic/organic forensic evidence. None of this word-of-mouth eye-witness bullshit. Testimony's can be bought...I know, I watched PA State Troopers buy it from a guy I knew to put a friend of mine behind bars....there wasd at best circumstantial evidence against my friend....they somehow built a probable cause case on that shit.....bastards the lot of em.

But it needs to be rock-solid, un-reversible evidence. I know that's hard to come by...but then, if they can't find it they also need to give a lesser sentence than death.

One death I want to see is when we find Osama...if that dirty Afghani camel-fucker is still alive....

Another is Jane Fonda....we need to go back, formally declare Viet Nam an actual war (58,271 KIA and it's a 'police action? MY ASS!) and put that cunt to death for treason.

Thus speaketh the Ian.


Man...leave Jane Fonda alone. She's a stupid cunt, but...publicly executing her would be weird. I remember seeing her mug shot and thinking...holy shit...that looks like me....hahaha. Except my eyes are blue, and my bangs aren't so crooked. God the resemblance is scary...hahaha. If Liv tyler and Jane Fonda fucked....that'd be me...totally.

http://vikingphoenix.com/news/stn/2001/donotstealbandwidthfondamug.jpg


On the subject of public execution...It would depend...like someone else said...on irrefutable FORENSIC evidence....and I wouldn't do it to women. I think it would help murders sexually objectify murder and women. I know that sounds weird...but, I have a feeling it would breed more sick fucking people....and one day.. We'd run out of rope.

[BRFC hooligan]

well i'm for the death penalty, but i think there's more entertaining things to watch.

[Blue Blood]

Public executions?
Absolutely.(But never in the view of anyone under the age of 18.)
Especially drug dealers(coke,speed,heroin,the hard stuff)

[CptnSpaulding]

Fkn right. They have a trial, and the right to appeal to a court with higher jurisdiction. Im not saying it has never happened, but these days it is fkn hard to execute an innocent man. In jail these fuckers have a chance of parole and the chance to kill other prisoners and members of staff. Fkn experiment on 'em for a few years then gut them like rotten fish in the public square.
yes it is very hard to execute a innocent man...especially when people wait on death row for an average of like 15 years before their executed. If nothing has come up by that point.....then their usually completely guilty.

[CptnSpaulding]

by the way...public hangings still exist in some states

[Hostilesouthern]

This is not Saudia Arabia. No. We are not a blood thirsty culture, I am very pro death penalty as well. I would like to see an entire over haul on the ways and reasons we imprison the population in the first place.

Rapist, child molestors, violent offenders, murderers. That's the only people I want to see in prison. Prison is a horrible place, there is no real social rehabiliation currently. Fine, put down the dogs in our country and rethink this drug war.

[CptnSpaulding]

This is not Saudia Arabia. No. We are not a blood thirsty culture, I am very pro death penalty as well. I would like to see an entire over haul on the ways and reasons we imprison the population in the first place.

Rapist, child molestors, violent offenders, murderers. That's the only people I want to see in prison. Prison is a horrible place, there is no real social rehabiliation currently. Fine, put down the dogs in our country and rethink this drug war.
i agree with you...but i'm just curiouse where you think the others should go.... Tax fraud, drug dealers, thiefs, bank robbers...............

[grouchybastid]

by the way...public hangings still exist in some states

No. Washington and New Hampshire are the only states where hanging is even an option in a capital crime, but that option hasn't been exercised since '96. The last public execution was a hanging, back in 1936.

Me, I say bring back public execution. I've argued for it for years.

[Hostilesouthern]

i agree with you...but i'm just curiouse where you think the others should go.... Tax fraud, drug dealers, thiefs, bank robbers...............


Public service and a form of detention. Cleaning up our parks, roads, or doing the dirty work of roadwork like laying tar. Hard labor to work off their debt. Yes, under the watchful eye of armed guards, I do not think an honor system would work depending on the degree of your crime or the amount of people displaced by your deed. Real rehab, not prison.

Shit, we'd save a good deal of taxpayor funds on city services.

[CptnSpaulding]

No. Washington and New Hampshire are the only states where hanging is even an option in a capital crime, but that option hasn't been exercised since '96. The last public execution was a hanging, back in 1936.

Me, I say bring back public execution. I've argued for it for years.
Utah is another one where it is an option.

[CptnSpaulding]

Public service and a form of detention. Cleaning up our parks, roads, or doing the dirty work of roadwork like laying tar. Hard labor to work off their debt. Yes, under the watchful eye of armed guards, I do not think an honor system would work depending on the degree of your crime or the amount of people displaced by your deed. Real rehab, not prison.

Shit, we'd save a good deal of taxpayor funds on city services.
OK.......so what will make them stop dealing/robbing banks durring this process? and what if they decided they didnt want to do community service/not ever show up? would they just get sentenced with more community service? or go to jail? they can still go home and keep doing what they were doing.

hell, if community service would be the punishment for dealing drugs...i would be the biggest drug lord in my area.

[Hostilesouthern]

OK.......so what will make them stop dealing/robbing banks durring this process? and what if they decided they didnt want to do community service/not ever show up? would they just get sentenced with more community service? or go to jail? they can still go home and keep doing what they were doing.

hell, if community service would be the punishment for dealing drugs...i would be the biggest drug lord in my area.


know anyone who has spent a number of years in a prison? Prisons create better equipt criminals, more violence. Yeah, that's working so awesome now.

It's a basic plan, and I did say a form of detention.

[weknowhowtolive]

Shes right. In the early days of prison, there were very very few people who went to prison...in the thousands. Now we send everyone there...for the dumbest things. Three strikes? Get caught with an oz of pot 3 times and you're in fucking jail?

Its a bunch of crap.

[Ihateyou]

No. Washington and New Hampshire are the only states where hanging is even an option in a capital crime, but that option hasn't been exercised since '96. The last public execution was a hanging, back in 1936.
Nope. Not true. Delaware also has hanging on the books. However, in order for it to be enacted, the convict has to have been sentenced to death prior to 1986 when lethal injection was mandated. Case point: Billy Bailey was executed on January 25, 1996 by hanging for the murder of an elderly couple in Cheswold, DE. The army corps of engineers had to be brought in to build a gallows because no one knew how to build it right. The height of the platform, length of rope, body weight etc. are all factors in construction.

Delaware also briefly entertained corporal punishment back in the '90's. Some state legislator introduced a bill that would bring back public whipping mostly for drug offenses. No less than 5 no more than 50 lashes was what was proposed. There is still a whipping pole standing at the detention facility in Price's Corner. Personally, I like the idea of corporal punsihment for more minor offenses. I think it should also be public and tickets sold to people over the age of 18.

I also firmly believe in capital punishment and think that the "cruel and unusual" argument has been overplayed to the extent that lethal injection is now being argued as too barbaric. If we as a society accept the responsibility and burden of executing our convicts, then we should do it in the most efficient, cost effective manner possible regardless of the feelings of the convict. They have already relinquished their right to an opinion at that point. I'm going to stop there before I get on a soapbox about inmates' rights. As for publicizing executions, I think the only people that need to witness that are the families of the victims and those directly influenced by the crimes committed.

[Hostilesouthern]

I'm going to stop there before I get on a soapbox about inmates' rights.

No, please continue. This just turned into good thread.


HOLY SHIT!!! Dan, is that you?

[Hostilesouthern]

hell, if community service would be the punishment for dealing drugs...i would be the biggest drug lord in my area.


Then you would have already crossed that ethical line in your own mind and deterrence does not work. Personal morals have more to do with crime than the laws in place.

[Ihateyou]

No, please continue. This just turned into good thread.


HOLY SHIT!!! Dan, is that you?
Yes Ma'am, it most certainly is. My soapbox about inmates' rights is, by default, going to be biased. I have a good friend who served as a guard at Graterford Prison here in PA for years. Graterford is an extremely old, overcrowded maximum security institution (one of only 3 in the state). Really bad people go there. Ira Einhorn was a guest there briefly before being transferred up state for "security reasons". Anyway, my friend (who's name is also Dan) has recounted so many stories of how the inmates there actually have more rights than the guards themselves that it's not funny. Whenever there is an altercation with a convict, the convict is automatically assumed to be the "victim" and the guard is put on administrative duty until an investigation is completed. To give you an idea of the working conditions for the guards, there are approximately 300 convicts in general population to every guard. Guards are not allowed any form of protective measures "for their own safety" That means no gun, no baton, no pepper spray. See, this is to protect the convicts from the mean nasty guards.

Anyway, two stories stand out. One, Dan was working solitary and when he opened the cell door, the convict lunged out and attacked him. Aside from some bruises and a busted up knuckle he was fine. The convict got sent back to his original cell, and Dan had a formal complaint put in his file for "excessive use of force on an inmate" All this for defending himself.

Second story. An extremely dangerous, violent, habitual offender did not play well with others. He was isolated from people for years because of this. Due to an administrative error, he was released, unguarded. Dan was the first guard he saw. He attacked Dan from behind with a sharpened Bic pen. Dan was stabbed 9 times, lost all of his front teeth, has permanent scarring on his face and head as well as all of the associated mental PTSD. Convict's fate = nothing. He was already a lifer so nothing further was done. Dan is now on permanent disability and the State is fighting him, claiming that he doesn't have any mental trauma and should return to work in the same environment. Yeah right. So, the convict gets away with attempted murder of a guard with no legal actions and my friend now has to fight the State just to get his pension because they think he should be just fine.

It seems to me from all of his stories that, inside the pennitentiary, the legal system is geared to protect the inmates moreso than the people employed by the State to guard them. There are so many stories of cases where convicts are granted special dispensations where they weren't deserved it makes me sick. Guards are constantly being brought up for investigation just because a convict complained of something totally ludicrous.

[TheBeerBaron]

Oh they definitely shouldn't be televised, that'd be ridiculous. I just meant that executions should be open to the public. You should also be 18+ to view it. I just think it's weong for the govt to decide that somebody should die, let the inmates decide that.

see......that make no sense to me. I thin public executions would do a lot of good if done properly. I understand that in the united states alone there are 92 people that have been pardoned from death row because dna evidence has cleared them of their guilt, but with the way we are advancing with technology it does not seem that unreasonable to believe that the number of falsely accused per annum will drop to the point where it is almost a certainty that the prosecuter got the right individual. I'm not saying america's nor my own country's legal system is flawless because I've been through it and I understand that there is a lot of work that needs to be done in both countries before public exocutions seem fisable. Although I've never been convicted of any crime worthy of capital punishment I still believe in certain circumstances death is merited. As for public executions, it's my understanding that certain states in america (correct me if I'm wrong) offer a viewing room to those family members of the accused and thusly those of the media and victims of the crime. To the general public I doubt that it would deter crime a significant amount if it were to be in a town square or televised, but if you could prove that "that was the guy who raped my daughter beyond any form of doubt" or something equally as hainous, wouldn't you want to watch him swinging from a tree in front of your city hall? I would.... and as for 18+......no way... people experience death in their lives, nobody escapes it, children are people too with just as many rights as everyone else. they are members of our society with the same treatment and freedom as the rest of us. They have (if public execution was an option) just as much of a right to witness it as the rest of us because crimes that merit death don't only affect those of us over the age of 18........

[AppletonDan]

I honestly think that every child molestor every rapist and sexual predator should be executed publicly....fuck those pieces of shit hang em and let em sit there for a while, maybe itll send a message to all those other creeps "we wont allow you to do this to our society anymore". I say kill em all and let god sort em out.

[ienjoybeer]

Public service and a form of detention. Cleaning up our parks, roads, or doing the dirty work of roadwork like laying tar. Hard labor to work off their debt. Yes, under the watchful eye of armed guards, I do not think an honor system would work depending on the degree of your crime or the amount of people displaced by your deed. Real rehab, not prison.

Shit, we'd save a good deal of taxpayor funds on city services.

Also...alternative punishments should be implemented. (ie. a juvenile who steals a car should be made to wait however many years to get their license... plus the labour you mentioned. Or, non-violent drug offenders should be made to work in a rehabilitation centre for addicts as a co-councellor, so they can walk in the shoes of those they may end up like...etc...(and I'm not talking about marijuana users, here, either).

And, I think rapists should be made to watch the movie Irreversible before they are shot at point blank..

[weknowhowtolive]

Fuck viewing rooms. Everyone who stands up in favor of the death penalty should have no problem watching the dudes legs twitch while he swings from a tree. Sick and tired of people bitching about animal treatment while suckin down chicken cordon bleu...pro death penalty but cant watch someone die...bunch of hypocrits. If you can sit with 10 other people and decide if someone lives or dies, you can watch em die. Otherwise, you arent fit to make such a decision.

[grouchybastid]

Nope. Not true. Delaware also has hanging on the books.


You're right, I stand fully corrected. That's what I get for posting the results of quick-and-dirty research.

Here's the current breakdown, for anybody that's interested:

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/methods.htm

[bacon_lettuce_tomato]

Im down for public executions, but only if booze and orgies are part of the equation. Can you imagine that? satisfying the three basic lusts of booze, sex, and violence all at the same time on a huge scale? thats a fucking party.

[CptnSpaulding]

know anyone who has spent a number of years in a prison? Prisons create better equipt criminals, more violence. Yeah, that's working so awesome now.

It's a basic plan, and I did say a form of detention.
yes, unfortionitley i know too many that have been.....and your right they dont change much...but they all say the same thing, "i aint going back their".

i'm telling you the smack on the rist thing wont work. They will continue what they are doing if their is no chance they will go to prison.

[Hostilesouthern]

yes, unfortionitley i know too many that have been.....and your right they dont change much...but they all say the same thing, "i aint going back their".

i'm telling you the smack on the rist thing wont work. They will continue what they are doing if their is no chance they will go to prison.


No one is advocating a smack on the wrist here. Hard labor is not merely picking up errant trash in a public playground. I'm talking about serious labor to benefit the community to offset their crime. White collar crime and stealing a T.V. from a pawn shop.... those sorts of folks have no place sharing cell space with a man who had raped and murdered. I want them to pay for it in sweat and back breakin' chores, not in blood and the loss of mental stability. That's why I would rather prison restricted to those who have no hope nor right to pay off their misdeeds. A dentention center would not not to resemble a prison, just to confine in order to complete the repayment and lessen the risk factor to those supervising this action.

That directly corrlates to the drug war/prohibition. We tried prohibition the 30's, and showed what a wild failure it was. Reduction of that black market and it's subsequent culture of crime is the most effective way to combat.

[RuneDK]

It's a bit Iranian isn't it? But rapists and child molesters should definately be hanged...

[CptnSpaulding]

White collar crime and stealing a T.V. from a pawn shop.... those sorts of folks have no place sharing cell space with a man who had raped and murdered. I want them to pay for it in sweat and back breakin' chores, not in blood and the loss of mental stability..

white collar criminals dont do the same time with other/normal prison mates... their put in much better places. You dont go to prison for stealing a used T.V. Maybe if they got a seriouse criminal history and its more then obviouse their not learning.....then still they will probably just do time in the county jail....which is a lot different then the state prison. I dont think that you realize the different sentencing of jail/prison time.... hell, some people only gotta serve county jail time on the weekends for two months......some people just gotta do a month in a county jail..... some people actually do get sent to rehab type jails (my buddys in one right now due to many many alcholol related offenses)..... and if you really fucked up doing the same stupid shit multiple times then you will go to prison.

their is so many options because of the different people and the different crimes.....i dont think their is much wrong with it

[Professor]

white collar criminals dont do the same time with other/normal prison mates... their put in much better places. You dont go to prison for stealing a used T.V. Maybe if they got a seriouse criminal history and its more then obviouse their not learning.....then still they will probably just do time in the county jail....which is a lot different then the state prison. I dont think that you realize the different sentencing of jail/prison time.... hell, some people only gotta serve county jail time on the weekends for two months......some people just gotta do a month in a county jail..... some people actually do get sent to rehab type jails (my buddys in one right now due to many many alcholol related offenses)..... and if you really fucked up doing the same stupid shit multiple times then you will go to prison.

their is so many options because of the different people and the different crimes.....i dont think their is much wrong with it

not to mention that white collar criminals are pretty much sent to a minimum security country club/resort type deal.

(yes, i'm exaggerating about the country club/resort aspect, but not by a lot)

personally, i'd like to see 'em all hanged, from the tv-stealing junkie, to ken lay, to a child rapist/murderer.

[CptnSpaulding]

not to mention that white collar criminals are pretty much sent to a minimum security country club/resort type deal.

(yes, i'm exaggerating about the country club/resort aspect, but not by a lot)

personally, i'd like to see 'em all hanged, from the tv-stealing junkie, to ken lay, to a child rapist/murderer.
yea....not by a lot at all

[siobahn]

Having people live on death row in countless prisons for as long as twenty years and then killing them is double sentencing in my view, as well cruel and unusual punishment.the reason this happens is because of all the appeals that are allowed. that the number of judges who can hear said appeals is so small that naturally the court system is flooded.

and i don't agree with the cruel and unusual part, but it is unnecessary stupidity.

how many sickos have been released from prison after serving their sentence only to go and kill again?or rape, or maim, or do any manner of fucked up shit that was more fucked up than the original thing they were so inadequately sentenced for.

Shes right. In the early days of prison, there were very very few people who went to prison...in the thousands. Now we send everyone there...for the dumbest things. Three strikes? Get caught with an oz of pot 3 times and you're in fucking jail?

Its a bunch of crap.it's a big industry.

then again, i don't see any reason to diminish the penalties for dealing hard drugs (on the contrary) or anything else, except for the laws surrounding marijuana.

A dentention center would not not to resemble a prison, just to confine in order to complete the repayment and lessen the risk factor to those supervising this action. how is this different from going to prison, but having to work during the day? i don't see how money would be saved by creating a different type of institution.

...as for 18+......no way... people experience death in their lives, nobody escapes it, children are people too with just as many rights as everyone else. they are members of our society with the same treatment and freedom as the rest of us.what?? no they aren't. they don't have the freedom do drink, drive, smoke, go to clubs, have sex, vote, be out alone for a long time, or do a ton of other things. these things are reserved for adults for a reason - because kids are not mentally or in some cases, physically ready to comprehend/deal with such things. would you really be ok with it if your kid saw someone fucking die? jesus.

edit - oh yeah and to the topic, i have no problem with making it public. 18+ of course, and only for the most serious crimes and where there is a mountain of physical evidence as someone said.

[Doc]

Big difference between execution in principle and making it public. And what exactly does making it public mean? Details please.

To be perfectly honest.........for child killers and their ilk, i would inject them with flesh eating bacteria and televise that shit live for an entire fkn week while they slowly dissolved in front of our eyes on the screen. What is the purpose of doing it behind closed doors?

[Skones]

This 18+ shit is bull...

If a kid that's 17 years and 364 days old can't handle it, what makes an 18 year old able to?


On the different note, I was 21 when I saw my first violent death. I sure as shit wasn't ready for it...

[Packratt]

This 18+ shit is bull...

If a kid that's 17 years and 364 days old can't handle it, what makes an 18 year old able to?


On the different note, I was 21 when I saw my first violent death. I sure as shit wasn't ready for it...

Well... Many many years ago it's true that executions were public affairs where whole families gathered to watch the day's beheadings and criminals against the crown being drawn and quartered.

I'm not sure, but it's likely that even in America's earlier days it wasn't unheard of to have children present at public hangings or floggings.

However, even though I think a public that votes in favor of capital punishment should be required to witness executions, I tend to think that it's best if my children don't see something like that. My parental perogative I suppose.

Of course, who am I to say? I've watched people die, get shot, burn, et al from the age of 8 and there isn't a thing *twitch* wrong with me... *twitch*

[CptnSpaulding]

my oppinion doesnt mean much because i havent seen anybody die in front of me....... but i sure as fuck would have loved to see a child melester/child killer die from at least the age of 15 and up. Its different to watch a friend shot/die then to watch someone you hate and despise die.......... then again, that might not be good for a kid either..you know- the whole revenge in death thing

[LastRites]

Why not pull a Satlin on their ass. Bread and warm water for breakfast, lunch and dinner...and off to the gulags they go. Allow the guards to use escessive force to get their point accross and thats ends it. Any guard caught "cheating" in any way...gets thrown in with the rest. Harsh, cruel and straight to the point withbout having to execute them.
Or dedicate an island for these fuckers....and surround it by fucking water mines. Hahaha....my imagination is awesome sometimes.

If I was ever a bum...shit, Id commit a crime just so that I could go to jail. Free roof over your head, internet, 3 meals a day and free education. Fucking awesome.

[eddie shots]

ive actually been thinking about this one for a while. if somebody rapes, murders, maimes somebody then they deservere to die. yet forensics of the past have been proven wrong and innocent people have died. so who is to say that our technology now will not be outdated in 20 tears. so, seriously jail is a nightmare anyway so i feel my tax dollars arent wasted if even one innocent man goes free for every one hundred that die behind bars. life is more important than death.

[Doc]

ive actually been thinking about this one for a while. if somebody rapes, murders, maimes somebody then they deservere to die. yet forensics of the past have been proven wrong and innocent people have died. so who is to say that our technology now will not be outdated in 20 tears. so, seriously jail is a nightmare anyway so i feel my tax dollars arent wasted if even one innocent man goes free for every one hundred that die behind bars. life is more important than death.

Yes, the lives of the public are most important. Maximum public safety is one of the issues here, the state being seen to exact justice on the most heinous of societies criminals is another. I don't think its worth giving up both those things just in case the system fails and an innocent man somehow slips through all those appeals.

[Oz.]

To be perfectly honest.........for child killers and their ilk, i would inject them with flesh eating bacteria and televise that shit live for an entire fkn week while they slowly dissolved in front of our eyes on the screen. What is the purpose of doing it behind closed doors?
Agreed. Except I don't believe allowing such executions to become a media event is is any way beneficial. Have them witnessed, with an option for victims and family to observe, but that's it. People thinking death is cheap and entertaining is what breeds these fuckups in the first place...

[shawn P]

Do you think that televised executions would have sponcers? I don't think I would be ok with "This hanging is brought to you by Ford. Have you driven a Ford lately?."

[Acari Rotter]

Here we are talking about televised executions, when it's illegal to get so much as your nipples out on TV...

[Doc]

Agreed. Except I don't believe allowing such executions to become a media event is is any way beneficial. Have them witnessed, with an option for victims and family to observe, but that's it. People thinking death is cheap and entertaining is what breeds these fuckups in the first place...

Stop putting the dampeners on my television career

[Oz.]

Stop putting the dampeners on my television career
Sorry, Doctor Nick. I forgot the Hollywood Upstairs Medical College code:frown: .

[TheBeerBaron]

what?? no they aren't. they don't have the freedom do drink, drive, smoke, go to clubs, have sex, vote, be out alone for a long time, or do a ton of other things. these things are reserved for adults for a reason - because kids are not mentally or in some cases, physically ready to comprehend/deal with such things. would you really be ok with it if your kid saw someone fucking die? jesus.

edit - oh yeah and to the topic, i have no problem with making it public. 18+ of course, and only for the most serious crimes and where there is a mountain of physical evidence as someone said.

sure, they can't drive, smoke, fuck, etc etc but does that take away from their humanity? no. Like I said, hainous crimes affect everybody, not just those of us over 18....... so in my opinion if a kid has the desire to watch a rapist swing, let 'em.

[CptnSpaulding]

Here we are talking about televised executions, when it's illegal to get so much as your nipples out on TV...
hmm, maybe they could put it on the internet

[siobahn]

ive actually been thinking about this one for a while. if somebody rapes, murders, maimes somebody then they deservere to die. yet forensics of the past have been proven wrong and innocent people have died. so who is to say that our technology now will not be outdated in 20 tears. so, seriously jail is a nightmare anyway so i feel my tax dollars arent wasted if even one innocent man goes free for every one hundred that die behind bars. life is more important than death.surely our technology will be outdated, but that doesn't change the fact that 99.999999% of the time, dna is specific to one person. this is something we have discovered, it will not change as other things are brought to light. dna patterns have been known to repeat in the population, but this is incredibly rare. combine that with the chances that they will pick up someone for the same crime that just happens to have similar dna, and you can see that wrongful conviction by this type of error is very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very unlikely.

anyway, this is why i only favour execution when there's a lot of corroborating physical evidence. i also think a lot of the wrong people are being executed.. not people that didn't commit murder, but people that committed murder while drunk/under the influence of drugs, or while in a rage.. and they get pinned with first degree not because it is the case, but because they have a shitty lawyer and sometimes because of politics. might still be scumbags, but probably not worthy of being killed. on the other hand, i think pedophiles with multiple cases who didn't necessarily kill anyone should be swinging from the lamp posts.

If I was ever a bum...shit, Id commit a crime just so that I could go to jail. Free roof over your head, internet, 3 meals a day and free education. Fucking awesome.lots of bums do do that (especially in the winter)... but on a more important note - internet!!!??! where the fuck do they have internet?? i know in some states, but... i never got to use internet. :frown:

Do you think that televised executions would have sponcers? I don't think I would be ok with "This hanging is brought to you by Ford. Have you driven a Ford lately?."hahaha... but you do bring up a good point. on top of generating public revenue via ticket sales, it'd be a great business opportunity. :smile:

sure, they can't drive, smoke, fuck, etc etc but does that take away from their humanity? no.my point was that children aren't mentally mature enough to make decisions about such things. sex affects everybody too, does that mean kids should be able to watch porn?

i know they were allowed to attend executions in the past... but violence is already glorified enough these days. the thought of my kid (which does not exist) going behind my back to buy a ticket to such a thing makes me sick to my stomach.

[CptnSpaulding]

i also think a lot of the wrong people are being executed.. not people that didn't commit murder, but people that committed murder while drunk/under the influence of drugs, or while in a rage.. and they get pinned with first degree not because it is the case, but because they have a shitty lawyer and sometimes because of politics..


you mean to tell me that people in rage who commit murder shouldnt be treated the same? you mean to tell me that its different if a child melestor is drunk then sober? mmmmm, fuck that shit... you do the crime- you do the time.

i've completely lost it before and did shit that i knew i shouldnt have done- but i knew that i would have to face the consequences and didnt give some stupid shit about how i was enraged.
also, if your completely shit faced and you just randumly killed someone for no reason.... then you still deserve to die- even if you were shit faced- hell, that would piss me off more.

edit: by the way- people have gotten off before for temporay insanity

[RuneDK]

If I was ever a bum...shit, Id commit a crime just so that I could go to jail. Free roof over your head, internet, 3 meals a day and free education. Fucking awesome.

You should commit a crime in Denmark then... here they get their own room with toilet facilitys, tv and a job that they get paid for doing. plus the other stuff you mentioned..

[CptnSpaulding]

You should commit a crime in Denmark then... here they get their own room with toilet facilitys, tv and a job that they get paid for doing. plus the other stuff you mentioned..
every cell has a toilet.......... and every inmate gets paid when they work (around one cent an hour)- awesome money

[Doc]

I think the bottom line is, the state has to be seen to punish these people. Criminals must be made to fear the consequences of their acts........lethal injection behind closed doors does not achieve that in my opinion. Going to sleep is rather a nice death. Criminals are not immune to fear........when a policeman points a gun in a suspects face and tells them to get down on the ground, 9 times out of ten they will do it. Why? Because they fear the gun. If the death penalty was consistent and feared, these fuckers would back down.

[CptnSpaulding]

I think the bottom line is, the state has to be seen to punish these people. Criminals must be made to fear the consequences of their acts........lethal injection behind closed doors does not achieve that in my opinion. Going to sleep is rather a nice death. Criminals are not immune to fear........when a policeman points a gun in a suspects face and tells them to get down on the ground, 9 times out of ten they will do it. Why? Because they fear the gun. If the death penalty was consistent and feared, these fuckers would back down.
.....true that

[Tokyohoon]

I've always believed that certain crimes warrant the death penalty, and by proper retribution - someone who shoots and kills someone else should face a firing squad, a poisoner should drink drain cleaner, and a rapist should be impaled. Ted Bundy and Jeff Dahmer? Drawn and quartered. And I would STRONGLY favour that it be done publicly. Not televised, but in the city square.

But, as Eddie has pointed out, there ARE cases where they get it wrong.

So, I would like to nominate Baffin Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baffin_Island for those of you that don't know it) as the world's newest prison-for-life.

The best part? No need to build walls! WHere they gonna go?

[eddie shots]

but hoon, that would be inhumane. hahaha. that would really suck trying to survive on the rotten seal blubber you managed to obtain by killing a polar bear.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

white collar criminals dont do the same time with other/normal prison mates... their put in much better places. You dont go to prison for stealing a used T.V. Maybe if they got a seriouse criminal history and its more then obviouse their not learning.....then still they will probably just do time in the county jail....which is a lot different then the state prison. I dont think that you realize the different sentencing of jail/prison time.... hell, some people only gotta serve county jail time on the weekends for two months......some people just gotta do a month in a county jail..... some people actually do get sent to rehab type jails (my buddys in one right now due to many many alcholol related offenses)..... and if you really fucked up doing the same stupid shit multiple times then you will go to prison.

their is so many options because of the different people and the different crimes.....i dont think their is much wrong with it
Prison is prison, I doubt there's ever been a person in prison that thought, "Boy I'm glad I'm here instead of Stateville." Maybe because they know they would get beat down in a Max. prison, but it's bad no matter where you are. Benefits are better at some prisons, but at the end of the day if you're tired of it you can't just walk out the door. All this shit about shanks and showers weigh on people's minds, but when you're used to living a certain lifestyle and you get it taken away, just the fact that you don't have any freedoms is enough to crack people in any level of incarceration.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

No. Washington and New Hampshire are the only states where hanging is even an option in a capital crime, but that option hasn't been exercised since '96. The last public execution was a hanging, back in 1936.
I don't know about that, my Dad was born in 1929 and he saw public hangings done by the Sheriff when he was growing up and I'm thinking it was after 1936. Of course, Mississippi is in it's own world anyway, I'm suprised the guys that got hung even made it to sentencing.

[siobahn]

you mean to tell me that people in rage who commit murder shouldnt be treated the same? you mean to tell me that its different if a child melestor is drunk then sober?nah, i didn't mean that they should never be executed, just that the law is often applied unfairly in these kind of circumstances. but pedophiles are a different story altogether - alcohol/drugs doesn't make someone have the urges to molest children, which is the problem to begin with.

i've completely lost it before and did shit that i knew i shouldnt have done- but i knew that i would have to face the consequences and didnt give some stupid shit about how i was enraged.
also, if your completely shit faced and you just randumly killed someone for no reason.... then you still deserve to die- even if you were shit faced- hell, that would piss me off more.yeah, i wasn't trying to mitigate the responsibility that exists.. and i agree that people, under the influence of any drug, will only act on things that are in their head to begin with. if you don't have the capacity to something disgustingly horrible, alcohol or drugs aren't going to provide that idea.

my problem is that people are sentenced for first degree murder when their offense is actually second degree... like a guy who gets drunk and beats on a guy (who, let's say, did some really fucked up shit), and the asshole dies from a brain hemorrage or some random injury that results from being hit in the head. someone convicted in this way is in a much different class than someone who murders out of revenge or pleasure - it was, quite simply an accident. but this is more of an issue of the law being applied than the law itself.

by the way- people have gotten off before for temporay insanityindeed, but they always have good lawyers. i also think this defense is bullshit, btw.. but that's another issue.



people are often convicted unfairly because of inherent problems with the legal system. for example, for anyone familiar with courts, it's obvious that economic inequality exists... but i don't think this has anything to do with the judges/prosecutors/politicians being out to get poor people. on the contrary, it's mostly the result of mindless routine.

i think there are a few things that can be done to remedy this:
- the amount of judges that can hear appeals should be increased, and appeals court judges elected rather than appointed;
- the number of appeals should be variant (usually less than, or at the most equal to the current amount) depending on the case;
- there should be an oversight commission funded by the government, which would deal with the assignment of lawyers/duty council/public defenders to accused. this would not present any strain on taxpayers' wallets because the funds would be taken from the current (massive) reserves that pay for prisoners to stay in jail while they await appeals;
- every lawyer should work a minimum of two years as PD/duty council after gaining at least ten years of independent (either defense or prosecutorial) experience in the field.

thoughts?

[lionhearted 1]

i say fry them all, however only after it is proved fact that they commited the crime at hand.

as for rapist's/ child diddlers/ women abusers, castrate the scumbags, first offence, that would get the message through rather clear.

[CptnSpaulding]

Prison is prison, I doubt there's ever been a person in prison that thought, "Boy I'm glad I'm here instead of Stateville." Maybe because they know they would get beat down in a Max. prison, but it's bad no matter where you are. Benefits are better at some prisons, but at the end of the day if you're tired of it you can't just walk out the door. All this shit about shanks and showers weigh on people's minds, but when you're used to living a certain lifestyle and you get it taken away, just the fact that you don't have any freedoms is enough to crack people in any level of incarceration.
i dont really know what your saying. Someone said something about how they dont think white collar people who commit white collar crimes (enron) should share the same cell as a murderer/rapist. I then said, "they dont, their actually put in seperate more chiller prisons.

and NO- prison is not prison....if you had any clue what the white collar prisons were like compared to the normal state prison..you would laugh. And i'm not sure what you were talking about when you said, "you cant just get up and walk out".... i'm not sure- but i dont think anybody and def not me said anything remotely like that.

edit: i would gladly post a link to the top nicest white collar prisons rated by Forbes magazine. Its great, most of the living environments they live in are twice as nice as mine.

[CptnSpaulding]

nah, i didn't mean that they should never be executed, just that the law is often applied unfairly in these kind of circumstances. but pedophiles are a different story altogether - alcohol/drugs doesn't make someone have the urges to molest children, which is the problem to begin with.

yeah, i wasn't trying to mitigate the responsibility that exists.. and i agree that people, under the influence of any drug, will only act on things that are in their head to begin with. if you don't have the capacity to something disgustingly horrible, alcohol or drugs aren't going to provide that idea.

my problem is that people are sentenced for first degree murder when their offense is actually second degree... like a guy who gets drunk and beats on a guy (who, let's say, did some really fucked up shit), and the asshole dies from a brain hemorrage or some random injury that results from being hit in the head. someone convicted in this way is in a much different class than someone who murders out of revenge or pleasure - it was, quite simply an accident. but this is more of an issue of the law being applied than the law itself.

indeed, but they always have good lawyers. i also think this defense is bullshit, btw.. but that's another issue.



people are often convicted unfairly because of inherent problems with the legal system. for example, for anyone familiar with courts, it's obvious that economic inequality exists... but i don't think this has anything to do with the judges/prosecutors/politicians being out to get poor people. on the contrary, it's mostly the result of mindless routine.

i think there are a few things that can be done to remedy this:
- the amount of judges that can hear appeals should be increased, and appeals court judges elected rather than appointed;
- the number of appeals should be variant (usually less than, or at the most equal to the current amount) depending on the case;
- there should be an oversight commission funded by the government, which would deal with the assignment of lawyers/duty council/public defenders to accused. this would not present any strain on taxpayers' wallets because the funds would be taken from the current (massive) reserves that pay for prisoners to stay in jail while they await appeals;
- every lawyer should work a minimum of two years as PD/duty council after gaining at least ten years of independent (either defense or prosecutorial) experience in the field.

thoughts?
yea i hear ya.....good post

[Bound Fo' Glory]

and NO- prison is not prison....if you had any clue what the white collar prisons were like compared to the normal state prison..you would laugh. And i'm not sure what you were talking about when you said, "you cant just get up and walk out".... i'm not sure- but i dont think anybody and def not me said anything remotely like that.
That was my point about prison, you can't leave, you don't have freedom....so it doesn't matter what kind of prison it is. The idea that there are good prisons for you to be in and bad prisons is asinine. When you're inside you're dead to the people outside, and when you're out you might as well be dead because you're treated like garbage. Who gives a fuck if they have nicer amenities or not.

[CptnSpaulding]

it doesn't matter what kind of prison it is. .

well, i'm glad you dont care............. while all us normal people do care. Your either really ignorant..or you are just trying to be tough. Why the fuck wouldnt it matter? yea, i get your point- your saying, "it doesnt matter because your still not free".... but you mean to tell me that you wouldnt want your own shower? Some inmates have computers in their cell. Their are some white collar prisons with pools in them. Give me a fucking break.

Thats like saying Military school and boarding school are the same thing.

edit: dont even lie and say that you wouldnt rather go to a white collar prison then Pelican Bay. BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE, big one.

[tousunis]

I wouldn't mind seeing people get executed....I think there would be much less crime if executions became public. The only thing I have a problem with is kids seeing that shit. "public" should mean 18+

[WBC]

so lets count how many people have just lost any moral right to call those following Sharia law savages......

[Doc]

so lets count how many people have just lost any moral right to call those following Sharia law savages......

Public execution of e.g. child killers, who have been found guilty in a court of law, and gone through the appeals process, is quite fkn different from Sharia law ya fanny.

[WBC]

Public execution of e.g. child killers, who have been found guilty in a court of law, and gone through the appeals process, is quite fkn different from Sharia law ya fanny.
kiss my arse.... people who cry for public executions are motivated by a degenerate streak... not some moral imperative..... although in fairness our kneecapping of paedos and dealers did keep the scum down....

[Hostilesouthern]

so lets count how many people have just lost any moral right to call those following Sharia law savages......

No joke, what the fuck?

This sounds more like bravdo to me, how many of you who want to see dead men swinging have actually seen a dead body? In my line of work, I see too many corpses for comfort. Even in a clinical setting, it's disturbing. Until it's not disturbing any longer, and that's what one has to look out for.

[Gut Check]

No joke, what the fuck?

This sounds more like bravdo to me, how many of you who want to see dead men swinging have actually seen a dead body? In my line of work, I see too many corpses for comfort. Even in a clinical setting, it's disturbing. Until it's not disturbing any longer, and that's what one has to look out for.
Haha, no shit, that's the first thing I thought when I read this, who the fuck wants to look at that shit?

Edit: That's another good point playgirl, who here has actually seen someone die? Because it's really not cool.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

well, i'm glad you dont care............. while all us normal people do care. Your either really ignorant..or you are just trying to be tough. Why the fuck wouldnt it matter? yea, i get your point- your saying, "it doesnt matter because your still not free".... but you mean to tell me that you wouldnt want your own shower? Some inmates have computers in their cell. Their are some white collar prisons with pools in them. Give me a fucking break.

Thats like saying Military school and boarding school are the same thing.

edit: dont even lie and say that you wouldnt rather go to a white collar prison then Pelican Bay. BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE, big one.
Yeah, I'm totally ignorant about the Criminal Justice system.....I mean I've just spent the past few years reading pages and pages of shit about it....every goddamn day, writing term papers about countless different aspects of it, going into actual prisons and talking to real live convicts, knowing police officers, federal agents and judges that are involved in sending people to prison everyday, and knowing people who have been locked up in every level of incarceration below supermax my whole life...but I guess normal people would know a bit more than me.


As for that last comment, I don't want to be locked up period. I don't want to sit in the drunk tank, I don't want to be out in a field at Stateville digging up potatoes, I don't want to be in no fence Martha Stuart prison....I don't want to have anything to do with it. I'm not going to sit around fantasizing about some shit like prison swimming pools and private showers, if you want to spend time contemplating about prison showers that's your thing....not mine.

[Doc]

kiss my arse.... people who cry for public executions are motivated by a degenerate streak... not some moral imperative..... although in fairness our kneecapping of paedos and dealers did keep the scum down....

I am thinking of capital punishment as a deterrent...........as something to be feared...........putting someone to sleep in a quiet room away from the public eye does not achieve that. There is nothing degenerate about this motivation.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

I am thinking of capital punishment as a deterrent...........as something to be feared
The death penalty doesn't deter shit, studies show that the death penalty never even crossed the mind of the majority of convicts on death row until they heard they were being tried in a capital case.

[Doc]

The death penalty doesn't deter shit, studies show that the death penalty never even crossed the mind of the majority of convicts on death row until they heard they were being tried in a capital case.

There are many studies that show the opposite to be true..........regardless, im not surprised that ther are some who find an average of 20 years of appeals and death by injection not too terrible a prospect.

[CptnSpaulding]

Yeah, I'm totally ignorant about the Criminal Justice system.....I mean I've just spent the past few years reading pages and pages of shit about it....every goddamn day, writing term papers about countless different aspects of it, going into actual prisons and talking to real live convicts, knowing police officers, federal agents and judges that are involved in sending people to prison everyday, and knowing people who have been locked up in every level of incarceration below supermax my whole life...but I guess normal people would know a bit more than me.


As for that last comment, I don't want to be locked up period. I don't want to sit in the drunk tank, I don't want to be out in a field at Stateville digging up potatoes, I don't want to be in no fence Martha Stuart prison....I don't want to have anything to do with it. I'm not going to sit around fantasizing about some shit like prison swimming pools and private showers, if you want to spend time contemplating about prison showers that's your thing....not mine.
congrats you study prisons....for reasons i dont know...but OK...you still dont know anything important that nobody else knows.

and yes, you made your point clear about how you dont want to be locked up....i still dont see what that has anything to do with anything...we werent really even talking about that.

as for me fanticizing about personal showers....uhh, good one.....i was making a point and i think i made it more then clear. If anybody has a lil fetish about prison its you....i'm not the one studying them everyday

[Bound Fo' Glory]

congrats you study prisons....for reasons i dont know...but OK...you still dont know anything important that nobody else knows.

and yes, you made your point clear about how you dont want to be locked up....i still dont see what that has anything to do with anything...we werent really even talking about that.

as for me fanticizing about personal showers....uhh, good one.....i was making a point and i think i made it more then clear. If anybody has a lil fetish about prison its you....i'm not the one studying them everyday
It's called Criminal Justice-Law Enforcement Administration, it's college.

[siobahn]

This sounds more like bravdo to me, how many of you who want to see dead men swinging have actually seen a dead body? i get what you're saying, but supporting public executions isn't the same as saying 'i really want to watch people die'. i support it mostly as a deterrent. of course, i also see the problems that it could cause for society, if for example the local frat boys make a habit of seeing johnny rapist fry every friday night. but that is just a reason to make it a carefully controlled event.

what i don't get is people who support the death penalty but would never be able to watch an execution. it shouldn't become regular, it shouldn't become entertaining... but to advocate something without wanting to think about what really goes on is just hypocrisy.

and this ain't anything like sharia law.

The death penalty doesn't deter shit, studies show that the death penalty never even crossed the mind of the majority of convicts on death row until they heard they were being tried in a capital case.um, if someone was deterred from committing capital murder, they wouldn't be on death row.

[Hostilesouthern]

what i don't get is people who support the death penalty but would never be able to watch an execution. it shouldn't become regular, it shouldn't become entertaining... but to advocate something without wanting to think about what really goes on is just hypocrisy.

.

Along those lines, a person who supports abortion should be able to see what a ripped apart baby looks like?

I do not support abortion in any way, just to make that clear. I still do not think women should be forced to see a mutilated fetus.

[weknowhowtolive]

Along those lines, a person who supports abortion should be able to see what a ripped apart baby looks like?

I do not support abortion in any way, just to make that clear. I still do not think women should be forced to see a mutilated fetus.If she has no problem getting her own child removed from her body, why the hell would she have a problem seeing it?

[siobahn]

Along those lines, a person who supports abortion should be able to see what a ripped apart baby looks like?

I do not support abortion in any way, just to make that clear. I still do not think women should be forced to see a mutilated fetus.well, there are those who support abortion as a political stance, and then women who get abortions because they want to/feel they have to. ethically, i think there is a difference.

a person who supports it politically, if they are true to their views shouldn't have a problem with seeing the end result.

a woman who has an abortion may or may not campaign for it in the political sense. she may do it for many reasons... i don't feel compelled to say that she should have to see the fetus to be considered morally right.

and i don't think anyone should be forced to do anything in this context.

[weknowhowtolive]

If seeing their dead child or fetus would change their opinion on abortion or freak them out, then they shouldnt be getting one.