Sb 840

[weknowhowtolive]

So basicly the short on this bill is universal healthcare for CA. Private healthcare will become illegal, and all money will be put in a "trust fund" for the state. Then ANYONE needing healthcare will be able to get it for "free." (no out of hand at the time...just on your taxes.) I read this outside the store today and actually laughed in the dudes face. What a bunch of commie bullshit.

http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/billview.html?bill=SB_840

If you care to actually read the bill.

The people behind it are

www.onecarenow.org

Total fucking crock.

If this passes im moving out of Commiefornia.

[steelcityskin]

If this passes im moving out of Commiefornia.
i'd move outa that state regardless...

[ghost]

Thats really fucked up. The hospitals are going to throw a fit about that. They already probably have a hard enough time getting money from the state to cover healthcare cost for illegals. Now they want everyone to pay in so some jobless fuck offs can run around getting medical care off of your hard earned paycheck. Fuck that, yeah, I would get the hell out of there is that shit makes it through.

[King of all Buffets]

So basicly the short on this bill is universal healthcare for CA. Private healthcare will become illegal, and all money will be put in a "trust fund" for the state. Then ANYONE needing healthcare will be able to get it for "free." (no out of hand at the time...just on your taxes.) I read this outside the store today and actually laughed in the dudes face. What a bunch of commie bullshit.

http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/billview.html?bill=SB_840

If you care to actually read the bill.

The people behind it are

www.onecarenow.org (http://www.onecarenow.org)

Total fucking crock.

If this passes im moving out of Commiefornia.


Why is it that you think universal heathcare is a bad idea?

[PUNISHER]

It seems that Cali has all the bad stuff that Americans don't like about Canada and all the bad stuff that Americans don't like about America. ie. gang violence, drugs, homo politics etc.

I'd really like to visit.

[weknowhowtolive]

Why is it that you think universal heathcare is a bad idea?Because i dont want to fork out more money so some douchebag can do something dumb and i fucking pay for it. Fuck that. Thats a bunch of shit.

[King of all Buffets]

Because i dont want to fork out more money so some douchebag can do something dumb and i fucking pay for it. Fuck that. Thats a bunch of shit.

I guess I can understand why you would think that but the truth is that universal heathcare would even help you to be able to not have to worry about getting a bank loan for minor surgery.....its not only free clinics for the poor.

It has its pros and cons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_health_care

[DukeCityDrunk]

i'd move outa that state regardless...

amen to that, although i miss the people... </emo>

[Blue Blood]

Health care for all...It's Socialism in pure form.
Shitdumbfuckmassachusetts just pushed the same thing..Romney's only big mistake,well,except for letting the katrina criminals scum up Cape Cod...But I digress.

[King of all Buffets]

Dont you guys think that you all could benifit as well?

[weknowhowtolive]

I guess I can understand why you would think that but the truth is that universal heathcare would even help you to be able to not have to worry about getting a bank loan for minor surgery.....its not only free clinics for the poor.

It has its pros and cons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_health_careRead the bill. By the way, i have healthcare through my job, why would i need a bank loan on minor surgery? This is the same fucking crap as Arnold raising the minimum wage. As soon as he raises it, everything else is going to go up in price. Who the fuck is working for minimum wage anyway? This state is crap...minimum wage is gunna be like $7.50 and half of its gunna go to pay for some freeloading boarderhoppers leg injury he got jumpin the fence.

[DukeCityDrunk]

Read the bill. By the way, i have healthcare through my job, why would i need a bank loan on minor surgery? This is the same fucking crap as Arnold raising the minimum wage. As soon as he raises it, everything else is going to go up in price. Who the fuck is working for minimum wage anyway? This state is crap...minimum wage is gunna be like $7.50 and half of its gunna go to pay for some freeloading boarderhoppers leg injury he got jumpin the fence.

hey man i think i need stitches

[King of all Buffets]

Read the bill. By the way, i have healthcare through my job, why would i need a bank loan on minor surgery? This is the same fucking crap as Arnold raising the minimum wage. As soon as he raises it, everything else is going to go up in price. Who the fuck is working for minimum wage anyway? This state is crap...minimum wage is gunna be like $7.50 and half of its gunna go to pay for some freeloading boarderhoppers leg injury he got jumpin the fence.

Dont you guys have fast food restaurants and coffee shops?....there are tones of shit jobs they pay min wage and lots of people that work them.

[weknowhowtolive]

Dont you guys have fast food restaurants and coffee shops?....there are tones of shit jobs they pay min wage and lots of people that work them.Yeah, if you're working at one of those minimum wage jobs, you should be a kid. You shouldnt be trying to raise a family off of minimum wage.

[King of all Buffets]

Yeah, if you're working at one of those minimum wage jobs, you should be a kid. You shouldnt be trying to raise a family off of minimum wage.

Ya should be.....but the reality is that there are lots of people trying to support families on small incomes.

[Diana E]

Ya should be.....but the reality is that there are lots of people trying to support families on small incomes.

A very simple explanation as to why universal hc sucks is that insurance itself is a quasi-socialistic construct. Insurance itself is based on the communal pooling of $ to pay claims. If you have one entity controlling the hc for an entire state's population.. or worse.. an entire country's population, you will by default begin to see the breakdown of the structure itself. England is a great example and I've heard some horror stories about Canada as well.

I myself like the idea of letting small business pool together to get the big company health rates. Takes care of a lot of bullcrap without putting the govt's hands into my biz.

Lemme ask you a question. Do you really feel comfortable allowing your government to control so many aspects of your life? I'd rather take out a loan for small surgery then have the govt in my business and that's the truth.

[ghost]

A very simple explanation as to why universal hc sucks is that insurance itself is a quasi-socialistic construct. Insurance itself is based on the communal pooling of $ to pay claims. If you have one entity controlling the hc for an entire state's population.. or worse.. an entire country's population, you will by default begin to see the breakdown of the structure itself. England is a great example and I've heard some horror stories about Canada as well.

I myself like the idea of letting small business pool together to get the big company health rates. Takes care of a lot of bullcrap without putting the govt's hands into my biz.

Lemme ask you a question. Do you really feel comfortable allowing your government to control so many aspects of your life? I'd rather take out a loan for small surgery then have the govt in my business and that's the truth.


Damn straight.

[weknowhowtolive]

A very simple explanation as to why universal hc sucks is that insurance itself is a quasi-socialistic construct. Insurance itself is based on the communal pooling of $ to pay claims. If you have one entity controlling the hc for an entire state's population.. or worse.. an entire country's population, you will by default begin to see the breakdown of the structure itself. England is a great example and I've heard some horror stories about Canada as well.

I myself like the idea of letting small business pool together to get the big company health rates. Takes care of a lot of bullcrap without putting the govt's hands into my biz.

Lemme ask you a question. Do you really feel comfortable allowing your government to control so many aspects of your life? I'd rather take out a loan for small surgery then have the govt in my business and that's the truth.

Yet this bill is "supposidly" saying that the government will stay out of healthcare...at the same time saying private healthcare will be illegal. Also this is a policy bill and doesnt have a finance bill tacked onto it yet. But predictions are employer costs will go up by 12% average and employee costs willgo up 5%. How does that save me money?

[E4 jon]

I'm a firm believer in the National Health Service. I rarely use it myself but it's there when needed. Private Health Care runs alongside the NHS successfully. It gives choice. The fact choice is to be removed from the bill that is the source of this thread is fucking stupid.

[ghost]

I'm a firm believer in the National Health Service. I rarely use it myself but it's there when needed. Private Health Care runs alongside the NHS successfully. It gives choice. The fact choice is to be removed from the bill that is the source of this thread is fucking stupid.


I could agree with something like that, like you said if there was a choice. Sadly though, I think that if Cali gets this it will be a testing point for the USA to consider this a nationwide type policy. Although we will still have the power of individual states to overide it hopefully.

[weknowhowtolive]

I'm a firm believer in the National Health Service. I rarely use it myself but it's there when needed. Private Health Care runs alongside the NHS successfully. It gives choice. The fact choice is to be removed from the bill that is the source of this thread is fucking stupid.

Well if you dont remove choice from it, everyone but the poorest people are going to stick with what they use now, and there will be no money.

[King of all Buffets]

Do you really feel comfortable allowing your government to control so many aspects of your life? I'd rather take out a loan for small surgery then have the govt in my business and that's the truth.

Listen this is something that as canuks we have always been offered, to say its "control" is like saying that the government is controlling us by collecting our garbage and or providing public education....or mowing the grass in or building better roads. We are slowly morphing towrds a better hybrid system the include private and public...it will ensure that the poor still receive quality healthcare without insane weight times to see a doc or get surgery and those that want to go the private route for faster treament will be allowed to do so. This is still a big debate as people worry that the privitization will really hurt the quality of medical attention that regular folks get.

[Argyleskin]

All I will say is I believe in Universal Healthcare if it's giving fairly to everyone, not used in a Big Brother fashion and those needing life saving/transplant operations are given them in accordance to severity.

I have a lifetime of medical bills to look forward to. Pack works a good job, but insurance is useless to me. Yes when insurance is offered (and not that Cobra stuff that is 60% of someones wage) the boys and Pack are covered, I feel good about that. But I am never covered. I am what is called "A pre-existing condition. It is a double edge sword with me. Without surgery and the expenesive tests I sometimes need I am sick. With Surgery I would not have the condition I have and therefore (if all they have told me is actually TRUE this time) I would be healthy. Unfortunately 40 grand hasn't fallen from the sky. Pack has in his worktime since he was a teen to now put more then that into taxes.But still I will not be covered. We tried the "Get the care and we'll worry about the bill later shit". And I go to bed every night knowing I am the reason we cannot get a home loan, a car loan, a personal loan, we have hiked rates for various things and credit cards are something we will never own. Bills paid on time mean nothing. Payments made to medical companies mean nothing. Until it is paid in full it will loom over our heads. I wish I could go back in time and fix this, have a proper doctor look at me when I was 17 and living with my folks. They could have had it covered, I would have been healed and well living wonderful. But I get to live each day knowing I'm sick, limiting what I've done with my life because of it. I want my sons to have a home that is OURS..not to have to rent..but as I've said that dream is still a few years away and many thousands of dollars still needing to be earned.

With universal healthcare I would have been taken care of, probably 100% completely without a fuck up. I wouldn't be writing this now. I would be eating foods I want, not being sick, being able to work a 40hr a week job. Nope...because of my crap care due to no insurance, because of not being able to afford up front costs of some procedures I now have a pancreatic cyst , years I can't get back from being sick, and on top of it all need 80% of my teeth pulled and appliances made due to my inability to absorb calcium in my teeth. Bones are fine thank god, but my teeth aren't getting the calicum. Why? Hey they don't know. Will they know? Probably not, why should YOU care..because you could be me someday.Universal healthcare or affordable insurance is needed for white collar, blue collar, the elderly, the poor. Because so many americans are "pre-existing" or simply cannot afford inurance as costs are now because they need a roof and food over their heads before ever thinking about a "What if..".

[King of all Buffets]

Well if you dont remove choice from it, everyone but the poorest people are going to stick with what they use now, and there will be no money.

the difference is say a well off business man that needs to get an MRI scan and the wait list at the hospital is 4 months.....He then choses to pay a private clinic to do the scan in 2 weeks instead, he has now saved a public sectors docters time and removed himslef from that wait list causing the wait times to be smaller for another patient that cannot afford a private clinic.

[weknowhowtolive]

That sucks sabby. i watched someone close to me die because of crpapy HMOs and busted insurance companies. I dont believe insurance as it is is working...i think this proposed universal healthcare "one - pay" crap is worse. I DO know people like you need help, unfortunetly i dont htink its fair to put it on everyones backs. I dont think its fair to raise employer costs by 12%, i dont think its fair to raise taxes to do it. The problem now is corruption, and universal healthcare would just bring more corruption into it.

[weknowhowtolive]

the difference is say a well off business man that needs to get an MRI scan and the wait list at the hospital is 4 months.....He then choses to pay a private clinic to do the scan in 2 weeks instead, he has now saved a public sectors docters time and removed himslef from that wait list causing the wait times to be smaller for another patient that cannot afford a private clinic.

While Poor Person #15567887 who also needs an MRI waits because someone else gets bumped to the front of the line, and he cant afford to get up there? How is that any different than it is now. Not to mention that the bill will make private healthcare illegal.

[King of all Buffets]

While Poor Person #15567887 who also needs an MRI waits because someone else gets bumped to the front of the line, and he cant afford to get up there? How is that any different than it is now. Not to mention that the bill will make private healthcare illegal.

no the point is that instead of someone getting bumped to the front of the line, they are stepping out of the line completely....making it a smaller faster line for those who cannot afford to opt out.

[weknowhowtolive]

no the point is that instead of someone getting bumped to the front of the line, they are stepping out of the line completely....making it a smaller faster line for those who cannot afford to opt out.

What? You arent listening. There wont be another place to go. People will choose freely who theyd like to go to. There will be ZERO private clinics, hospitals, doctors etc. Everyone is in the same queue. No one can just step out of line.

[King of all Buffets]

What? You arent listening. There wont be another place to go. People will choose freely who theyd like to go to. There will be ZERO private clinics, hospitals, doctors etc. Everyone is in the same queue. No one can just step out of line.

How could they turn your countries for profit system in to a unversal one...doctors would never go for it and the logistics of making it happen are mind boggling....plus the owners of these private clincs wont take kindley to there businesses being dismantled....i dont see it happening.

[TheBeerBaron]

Lemme ask you a question. Do you really feel comfortable allowing your government to control so many aspects of your life? I'd rather take out a loan for small surgery then have the govt in my business and that's the truth.
The government using tax dollars for health care is far from controling your life. They aren't trying to control people's injuries and illnesses. They are using small amounts of your money to make sure when you do need (god forbid) major heart surgery or something that you don't have to re-mortgage your house. How is universal health care like big brother? Sure there are ups and downs and illegals aside, wouldn't you rather give a percentage of your paycheck to the government to ensure that lets say ........you lose your job and need stitches for some reason that you can still go get them and not have to worry about it costing money? I didn't read the bill and criminalizing private sectors is dumb as shit but to completey try to debunk universal health care is absolutely ridiculous.

[weknowhowtolive]

How could they turn your countries for profit system in to a unversal one...doctors would never go for it and the logistics of making it happen are mind boggling....plus the owners of these private clincs wont take kindley to there businesses being dismantled....i dont see it happening.

Again, read the bill. You obviously dont know much about california if you dont think this bill passing is a possibility. Its also not countrywide, its statewide.

[weknowhowtolive]

Here, since no one is going to read that bill, here is the OneCareNow.org's version of it in short: The statewide OneCareNow grass roots campaign is devoted to educating Californians and building massive support for Senate Bill 840, titled "The California Health Insurance Reliability Act", authored by Senator Sheila Kuehl.

This landmark legislation provides fiscally sound, affordable and comprehensive coverage via universal health insurance for all Californians.

The bill creates one plan and one public trust fund which pays all health care bills and collects all the monies already being spent on health care and insurance plans that replace all premiums, deductibles and co-payments now paid by employers, employees and individuals.

Some of SB 840 benefits include:

Security - All California residents are covered for life.

Choice - Everyone has the freedom to choose their doctor or integrated health system such as Kaiser. Delivery of care will continue as now to be private and public.

Comprehensive Benefits - Coverage includes all care prescribed by a patient's health care provider that meets accepted standards of care and practice. Coverage includes hospital, medical, surgical, mental health; dental and vision care; prescription drugs and medical equipments, diagnostic testing, hospice care and more.

High Quality - The bill utilizes proven financial incentives that support the delivery of high quality care, including bonuses for providers working in rural or under-served areas. The plan invests in needed health care infrastructure such as electronic claims and reimbursement systems and statewide medical databases that improve health care quality.

Efficient Administration - Consolidating the hundreds of insurance plans, both private and public, into one comprehensive insurance plan saves the state, patients and providers billions of dollars each year.

Shared Responsibility - Payment of an affordable premium by employers, employees and individuals supports the health care system we all need at some time.

Fair Reimbursement - Providers receive fair and full compensation for all their services.

Cost Controls - Health care costs are controlled by efficient administration, bulk purchase of drugs and durable medical equipment, global health care budgets, coordination of capital expenditures, and linkage to growth of the State Gross Domestic Product.

[E4 jon]

Well if you dont remove choice from it, everyone but the poorest people are going to stick with what they use now, and there will be no money.

The NHS is funded through mandatory national taxation.

I assume you have State taxation? If so everyone pays (like we do). If you then want to go private as well that's fine. We cannot opt out of the National scheme, thus it is funded by all.

The fact that an NHS ambulance will come scrape you off your dashboard or off the pavement after an accident is available to everyone - as is all hospital care and treatments. No health care card necessary. If people prefer to have operations or other medical treatment privately, they pay for it. Simple as. Those who can afford a 5 star hospital get it. Those who can't, or who prefer not to get it at a state run hospital.

I personally don't believe in private health care and don't have any (ok, apart from dentistry), but I also believe that people should have the choice.

[weknowhowtolive]

The NHS is funded through mandatory national taxation.

I assume you have State taxation? If so everyone pays (like we do). If you then want to go private as well that's fine. We cannot opt out of the National scheme, thus it is funded by all.

The fact that an NHS ambulance will come scrape you off your dashboard or off the pavement after an accident is available to everyone - as is all hospital care and treatments. No health care card necessary. If people prefer to have operations or other medical treatment privately, they pay for it. Simple as. Those who can afford a 5 star hospital get it. Those who can't, or who prefer not to get it at a state run hospital.

I personally don't believe in private health care and don't have any (ok, apart from dentistry), but I also believe that people should have the choice.

And that right there is a HUGE problem.

[valleysjo]

The NHS is funded through mandatory national taxation.

I assume you have State taxation? If so everyone pays (like we do). If you then want to go private as well that's fine. We cannot opt out of the National scheme, thus it is funded by all.

The fact that an NHS ambulance will come scrape you off your dashboard or off the pavement after an accident is available to everyone - as is all hospital care and treatments. No health care card necessary. If people prefer to have operations or other medical treatment privately, they pay for it. Simple as. Those who can afford a 5 star hospital get it. Those who can't, or who prefer not to get it at a state run hospital.

I personally don't believe in private health care and don't have any (ok, apart from dentistry), but I also believe that people should have the choice.

I totally believe in the fact that health care should be availabe to all, whether you can pay or not, but what pisses me off about our country is the postcode thing, the fact that your postcode determines what is available to you, why the hell should where you live in Britain affect what is available to you on the nhs???

[E4 jon]

And that right there is a HUGE problem.

Our population figures out today have gone over the 60,000,000 mark for the first time ever. This latest rise is due to immigration. Through the EEC freedom of movement policy, many ex-communist state workers are coming over in droves. I think they estimated 16,000 from Poland and the figure stands at the moment at 60,000!

The open door policy in theory means no reason for illegals from these countries and so as workers they pay tax and help fund the services they will require from the State from time to time. The handing over of your 'National Insurance Number' helps keep the number of illegals claiming health care down, but it is a problem that will only get worse.

[E4 jon]

I totally believe in the fact that health care should be availabe to all, whether you can pay or not, but what pisses me off about our country is the postcode thing, the fact that your postcode determines what is available to you, why the hell should where you live in Britain affect what is available to you on the nhs???

It is within your remit to rectify problems you encounter locally by simply voting for another local governing party at the next election. All well and good in theory I hear you say. But that is indeed the reality. If your County Council aren't providing the goods, vote them out.

[valleysjo]

It is within your remit to rectify problems you encounter locally by simply voting for another local governing party at the next election. All well and good in theory I hear you say. But that is indeed the reality. If your County Council aren't providing the goods, vote them out.

Agreed, but here in the North West and Im still in Burnley till I move on Monday, for me its a question of voting for the standing party to keep the BNP from gaining power, and that to me is more important than any healthcare gain.

[E4 jon]

Agreed, but here in the North West and Im still in Burnley till I move on Monday, for me its a question of voting for the standing party to keep the BNP from gaining power, and that to me is more important than any healthcare gain.

I'm in a similar situation. I have an apartment in North Chingford which is a Norman Tebbitt type constituency (I now rent that out) and I have moved recently to a constituency adjacent to Barking & Dagenham which is a BNP stronghold. The last train to Dagenham is indeed a gruesome one!

[militarymite]

Because i dont want to fork out more money so some douchebag can do something dumb and i fucking pay for it. Fuck that. Thats a bunch of shit.
I am curious to know what type of health insurance you have presently? It's obvious you know nothing about the healthcare system in this country. Non-working people, illegals, ect. are served through the medi-care system which ALL taxpayers pay for. It is illegal for any hospital emergency room to deny medical attention to anyone in need. The government reimburses the hospital for a percentage of the hospital's actual cost. The rest is charged to people who have insurance or out of pocket payers (people that have no insurance but have the ability to pay). So the rest is still being payed by us through higher and higher insurance premiums and super inflated medical charges hospitals charge so the percentage paid by the government and insurance companies covers their costs. Hospitals are in the business for profit, nothing else. When the for profit hospitals start losing money, because the emergency room is flooded with non-paying patients, the hospital closes down the emergency room which is legal but hurts everyone because the availability of these facilities is critical. In all this it's the middle-class that suffers. Hard working people who pay their way, and are either self-insured if self employed, or insured through their work which is usually an HMO notorius for low cost helthcare which means very limited healthcare, you know you get what you pay for. As the bill states, fifty percent of bankruptcys in California are due to catastrophic illness, burdening the insured with astronomical healthcare bills they are unable to pay. Who do you think the cost of absorbing these unpaid bills are passed onto by hospitals and insurance companies? It sems fair to me to have everyone pay an equal amount that is reasonable into a single fund that everyone would equally benefit from. It's the middle class that has everything to benefit from this deal. If it was put to a vote, I bet it would have overwhelming support. I believe this system is already in place im Massachuesetts under the leadrship of republican governor Mitt Romney.

[militarymite]

A very simple explanation as to why universal hc sucks is that insurance itself is a quasi-socialistic construct. Insurance itself is based on the communal pooling of $ to pay claims. If you have one entity controlling the hc for an entire state's population.. or worse.. an entire country's population, you will by default begin to see the breakdown of the structure itself. England is a great example and I've heard some horror stories about Canada as well.

I myself like the idea of letting small business pool together to get the big company health rates. Takes care of a lot of bullcrap without putting the govt's hands into my biz.

Lemme ask you a question. Do you really feel comfortable allowing your government to control so many aspects of your life? I'd rather take out a loan for small surgery then have the govt in my business and that's the truth.
Then you must have a problem with the government building things like roads, bridges, dams and sewers which benefit everyone equally? I don't have any problem with the government actually doing things that will increase the quality of life for all it's citizens.

[weknowhowtolive]

I am curious to know what type of health insurance you have presently? It's obvious you know nothing about the healthcare system in this country. Non-working people, illegals, ect. are served through the medi-care system which ALL taxpayers pay for. It is illegal for any hospital emergency room to deny medical attention to anyone in need. The government reimburses the hospital for a percentage of the hospital's actual cost. The rest is charged to people who have insurance or out of pocket payers (people that have no insurance but have the ability to pay). So the rest is still being payed by us through higher and higher insurance premiums and super inflated medical charges hospitals charge so the percentage paid by the government and insurance companies covers their costs. Hospitals are in the business for profit, nothing else. When the for profit hospitals start losing money, because the emergency room is flooded with non-paying patients, the hospital closes down the emergency room which is legal but hurts everyone because the availability of these facilities is critical. In all this it's the middle-class that suffers. Hard working people who pay their way, and are either self-insured if self employed, or insured through their work which is usually an HMO notorius for low cost helthcare which means very limited healthcare, you know you get what you pay for. As the bill states, fifty percent of bankruptcys in California are due to catastrophic illness, burdening the insured with astronomical healthcare bills they are unable to pay. Who do you think the cost of absorbing these unpaid bills are passed onto by hospitals and insurance companies? It sems fair to me to have everyone pay an equal amount that is reasonable into a single fund that everyone would equally benefit from. It's the middle class that has everything to benefit from this deal. If it was put to a vote, I bet it would have overwhelming support. I believe this system is already in place im Massachuesetts under the leadrship of republican governor Mitt Romney.

I have a "lite" version of Kaiser. Not exactly the bees knees. I also said above i dont think the current system is any better, just that this will only make it worse. I dont think illegals should get healthcare for free, thats a load of shit. as i said in another post, the current system is totally corrupt...WAY too expensive. Doesnt mean this is better.

[militarymite]

That sucks sabby. i watched someone close to me die because of crpapy HMOs and busted insurance companies. I dont believe insurance as it is is working...i think this proposed universal healthcare "one - pay" crap is worse. I DO know people like you need help, unfortunetly i dont htink its fair to put it on everyones backs. I dont think its fair to raise employer costs by 12%, i dont think its fair to raise taxes to do it. The problem now is corruption, and universal healthcare would just bring more corruption into it.
There's nothing more corrupt than the healthcare industry. They are allowed to charge whatever they want with no government oversight. Because the healthcare industry has bought off the congress and the executive branch, nothing is being done in Wasington because there is no leadership and no political will. Finally the individual states are taking on this nation's number one problem. Five to ten percent increase in payroll taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we all are going to have to pay out of pocket in the next several years if nothing is done to change the current system.

[weknowhowtolive]

Let me ask a few questions. In this bill they say stuff will be FREE to all Californians FOR LIFE. What happens with...

There is now no copay..so the only reason people have to not go in is driving there. Wont this be a pretty big increase and a huge workload for doctors?

Medication...generic medications must be out, right? i mean if both are free whod take generic?

Illegals...sure an illegal can go into an ER and get help...but they cant walk into any doctors office and get help. Now they can, which means it wont just be for emergencies...it will be for EVERYTHING...right?

[militarymite]

I have a "lite" version of Kaiser. Not exactly the bees knees. I also said above i dont think the current system is any better, just that this will only make it worse. I dont think illegals should get healthcare for free, thats a load of shit. as i said in another post, the current system is totally corrupt...WAY too expensive. Doesnt mean this is better.
I think you should give it a chance. If it does'nt work it could be changed, I think there are enough smart people in this country that some form of health care system can be worked out that is fair for everyone. Throwing words like commie, and socialism, and even universal health-care around are'nt constructive and keeps anything good or positive from happening. Technically I agree illegals should not benefit from our social services in any form. I especially hate it when I go to the grocery store and I pay for my groceries but the illegals ahead of me get theirs free with their food stamps. But then there is the moral issue, that we are a civilization that operates on a higher level of compassion and ethicalness. Too bad some of that is going to have to go away. the illegal shit is just getting way out of hand and going to begin bankrupting towns, cities, and states where they have no other choice.

[Blue Blood]

I work in a machine shop that employs just under 400 people,we run 22 hrs a day.We just had to get another carrier because our 'incident rate' was too high.Anyone here know what that is? No,it's not "john cut his thumb off in the press" type crap..It's people who actually utilise their health care for preventive/standard care..So we lost our coverage because we have alot of older folks(italian immigrants) who have been with the co. for yrs,who use their coverage..Makes me sick,everything for money in our country..
HMO's are a SCAM.

[Diana E]

For you Canucks, what I'm saying is when the only other choice but what the gov't offers you is to pay yourself, that's a control.

Sabby, I'm very sorry to hear your situation. I know that insurance is state regulated so your laws in Washington are different than in Jersey. But in NJ, it is illegal to deny coverage based on pre-existing. NJ underwent health insurance reform in the 90's I think, prior to reform it was similar to your situation. It's bullshit.

Another thing to consider is tort reform. This will solve more problems than overhauling an already impossible system to navigate into an government operated entity.

[Diana E]

Then you must have a problem with the government building things like roads, bridges, dams and sewers which benefit everyone equally? I don't have any problem with the government actually doing things that will increase the quality of life for all it's citizens.


There is a difference between being able to drive my car or getting an education and getting health care that will save my life. Get it? My whole problem with gov't controlled health insurance is exactly why being able to drive my car or get an education is different than saving my life. I would prefer to not have the gov't involved with things that are absolutely essential to my basic existence.

[TheBeerBaron]

There is a difference between being able to drive my car or getting an education and getting health care that will save my life. Get it? My whole problem with gov't controlled health insurance is exactly why being able to drive my car or get an education is different than saving my life. I would prefer to not have the gov't involved with things that are absolutely essential to my basic existence.

I don't understand your reasoning. I realize that the government's job is not you feed, clothe and take care of it's populous, merely to provide them with, and ensure them, basic means to do so for them selves without obstruction.......But is it not also the government's job to make sure their citizens are safe, healthy and unailing when it's citizens are beyond their own means to do so? Our two governments are very different from one another so this must be where our opinions vary, but if I was in need of a life saving and costly surgery, I would be thrilled to know that my government is there to provide it for me and for no charge to my bank account minus bed and transport fees.

[SkinnyBird]

Because i dont want to fork out more money so some douchebag can do something dumb and i fucking pay for it. Fuck that. Thats a bunch of shit.
Which is different from private insurance how? my fucking PPO at work is going to cost me $46 a week, and I make $9 per hour (full time) and there's still a good chance that the fuckers will refuse to pay for something because they're a private company and they can do that.

The whole fucking system needs to be overhauled. No more sending people to the ER for a fucking hang nail, no more sending people home in an ambulance because they don't have a bus card, start nipping problems in the bud and stop letting shit get out of hand. Preventitive care so that people won't get diabetes and high blood pressure. Elective plastic surgery? Pay for it yourself. Procedure that's actually medically necessary? Don't worry about it.

And NO MORE FAT PEOPLE!!!

[SkinnyBird]

And that right there is a HUGE problem.
That's for emergency services. Would you like to find yourself pinned in a car and the ambulance won't take you out because your wallet (and insurance card) got lost on impact?

Emergency Room treatment for Emergency Room cases isn't what's costing an arm and a leg. Emergency Room treatment for Family Practice cases (a sore throat, rash, boil, etc) is.

Thursday while I was at work one of our other crews was dispatched to a shitty nursing home to take a guy to the ER for a boil on the arm. A boil. Like a sore. Like not life threatening. Half the time it's just the nurses don't want to deal with somebody at the moment so they find a reason to send the guy out to the ER.

[LeftWingScum]

So basicly the short on this bill is universal healthcare for CA. Private healthcare will become illegal, and all money will be put in a "trust fund" for the state. Then ANYONE needing healthcare will be able to get it for "free." (no out of hand at the time...just on your taxes.) I read this outside the store today and actually laughed in the dudes face. What a bunch of commie bullshit.

http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/billview.html?bill=SB_840

If you care to actually read the bill.

The people behind it are

www.onecarenow.org (http://www.onecarenow.org)

Total fucking crock.

If this passes im moving out of Commiefornia.

i hope you lose your job, get ill and owe 200 large in hospital bills.

[Hostilesouthern]

For you Canucks, what I'm saying is when the only other choice but what the gov't offers you is to pay yourself, that's a control.

Sabby, I'm very sorry to hear your situation. I know that insurance is state regulated so your laws in Washington are different than in Jersey. But in NJ, it is illegal to deny coverage based on pre-existing. NJ underwent health insurance reform in the 90's I think, prior to reform it was similar to your situation. It's bullshit.

Another thing to consider is tort reform. This will solve more problems than overhauling an already impossible system to navigate into an government operated entity.


Pre-existing clauses expire after 6 months to a year.

[weknowhowtolive]

i hope you lose your job, get ill and owe 200 large in hospital bills.You can easily owe 200k WITH health insurance so thats no difference.

[Hostilesouthern]

You can easily owe 200k WITH health insurance so thats no difference.


I hate to point out yet again that Federal and commerical insurance is the base of what is sending health care cost through the roof but, why bother? You people keep on with that crap that doctors are all bad dudes out to screw you and it's someone else's problem to take care of you.

Frankly, I would like to see doctors all over the country stop accepting insurance of any kind and start acting like god damn doctors again. Have a simple price list for all procedures, office visits and labs. $25 office visits, no matter what the reason for the visit. $10 xrays, it only costs around $5 to $8 to do an xray.

I would like to see insurance become the consumer's bitch, not the other way around. End employer group coverage and force the insurance industry to deal with people as car insurance does. You buy what you need, major medical is really all anyone ever needs to keep them from going into bankruptcy. this would drive down cost for everyone rapidly. And as mention before, stop using the ER for general medicine.

I would also like to see Eastern medicine used more as well as homoepathic avenues.

[weknowhowtolive]

I hate to point out yet again that Federal and commerical insurance is the base of what is sending health care cost through the roof but, why bother? You people keep on with that crap that doctors are all bad dudes out to screw you and it's someone else's problem to take care of you.

Frankly, I would like to see doctors all over the country stop accepting insurance of any kind and start acting like god damn doctors again. Have a simple price list for all procedures, office visits and labs. $25 office visits, no matter what the reason for the visit. $10 xrays, it only costs around $5 to $8 to do an xray.

I would like to see insurance become the consumer's bitch, not the other way around. End employer group coverage and force the insurance industry to deal with people as car insurance does. You buy what you need, major medical is really all anyone ever needs to keep them from going into bankruptcy. this would drive down cost for everyone rapidly. And as mention before, stop using the ER for general medicine.

I would also like to see Eastern medicine used more as well as homoepathic avenues.Yeah there are some decent doctors, but why charge a small amount when they can charge $200 for a pair of tweezers? What does an ambulence ride cost these days? $1000?

[Hostilesouthern]

Which is different from private insurance how? my fucking PPO at work is going to cost me $46 a week, and I make $9 per hour (full time) and there's still a good chance that the fuckers will refuse to pay for something because they're a private company and they can do that.

The whole fucking system needs to be overhauled. No more sending people to the ER for a fucking hang nail, no more sending people home in an ambulance because they don't have a bus card, start nipping problems in the bud and stop letting shit get out of hand. Preventitive care so that people won't get diabetes and high blood pressure. Elective plastic surgery? Pay for it yourself. Procedure that's actually medically necessary? Don't worry about it.

And NO MORE FAT PEOPLE!!!


Come on, you and I both know from working in this industry that an insurance plan is not allowed to arbitrarily deny claims. A huge problem is that folks do not learn what their policy covers, Federal or commerical, and expect to have the staff figure it out for them. You don't go to a mechanic and expect him to know what the warranty reads like, or get pissed when something is not covered by the warranty.

You are dead on about the fat fucks, this is a MAJOR issue for everyone. Obesity cause massive health problems then gets these big asses into hospitals often.

Working out is free, takes little time and keeps you (for the most part) out of the health care system. It is also excellent for mental health thus reducing the need for so many fucking mood altering drugs.

[Hostilesouthern]

Yeah there are some decent doctors, but why charge a small amount when they can charge $200 for a pair of tweezers? What does an ambulence ride cost these days? $1000?


Due to insurance problems again. Most folks could care less what a doctor charges cause the office just bills the insurance company for whatever the fee schedule allows. So yeah, lots of docs abuse this cause they can. Take insurance out of the equation and you have new accountability all over the place.

Wanna know why docs do so many unnecessary lab tests? cause you will get sued if you don't do a whole battery and something is missed.

health is never going to be an exact science, accept that.

[weknowhowtolive]

Due to insurance problems again. Most folks could care less what a doctor charges cause the office just bills the insurance company for whatever the fee schedule allows. So yeah, lots of docs abuse this cause they can. Take insurance out of the equation and you have new accountability all over the place.

Wanna know why docs do so many unnecessary lab tests? cause you will get sued if you don't do a whole battery and something is missed.

health is never going to be an exact science, accept that.Never said it was...but to be honest, my insurance is so shitty i have to ask for everything. Im pretty sure Kaiser has been sued many many times for wrongful deaths because...well..they just dont do shit.


But i agree with you on the Eastern medicine and homeopathic shit. A lot of the home care stuff works...people are just afraid to use it because it doesnt have a brand name slapped on it.

[Hostilesouthern]

HA! you have Kaiser? Good luck with that.

The wrongful death thing is yet another point, sometimes, you just die and there is nothing to be done for you. Sometimes, your illness can not be cured (cures are kind of a joke anyway) and you just have to live with it.

I need to stop.

[weknowhowtolive]

HA! you have Kaiser? Good luck with that.

The wrongful death thing is yet another point, sometimes, you just die and there is nothing to be done for you. Sometimes, your illness can not be cured (cures are kind of a joke anyway) and you just have to live with it.

I need to stop.And sometimes when i say "I want this this and this" and they decide to amputate my legs, you get screwed :rolleyes:

[SkinnyBird]

Come on, you and I both know from working in this industry that an insurance plan is not allowed to arbitrarily deny claims.

Working out is free, takes little time and keeps you (for the most part) out of the health care system. It is also excellent for mental health thus reducing the need for so many fucking mood altering drugs.

It's never truly arbitrary, it's always something like "you didn't initial on this line so we're not going to pay it" or "was that really medically necessary to have a chunk of your lung removed?" or whatever. Thing is, they'll look for any reason NOT to pay for something.

My mom's health insurance company has a program where if you're in good health, excercise, etc, etc, you can earn "points" that give you discounts on your gym membership, free gifts (like ice cream maker and espresso machine), subscriptions to fitness magazines, etc. That's how things should work. (they still tried to stick her with the bill for a CT scan)

Yeah there are some decent doctors, but why charge a small amount when they can charge $200 for a pair of tweezers? What does an ambulence ride cost these days? $1000?

Right now a BLS ambulance run at my company costs between $300 and $500, and almost every patient we take is on medicare or public aid. Hospitals like to send perfectly capable people home by ambulance because it's convenient and does not cost the hospital money as giving out a $2 bus card does.

I agree with you both about alternative and traditional medicine. Prevention is the way to go. and lots of this stuff could be treated at home by somebody with a little bit of knowledge.

[Hostilesouthern]

Procedure that's actually medically necessary? Don't worry about it.

Well that is a problem too. Medicare sets guidelines as to what is considered med necessary and that does not usually jive with a doctors opinion. Like a preventative measure procedure like a colonoscopy. It's only covered as routine when there is a family history of malignant neoplasms, and even that has to be immediate family like Mom or Brother.

In healthcare we are always saying this industry is recession proof, the more power Medicare gets (meaning the more people they insure) the more need for Administration staff due to over-regulation. That causes cost to go up as well.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

..Romney's only big mistake.
Besides being a Mormon?

[Bound Fo' Glory]

What does an ambulence ride cost these days? $1000?
$765 when my Dad had his stroke a few months back.

[SkinnyBird]

$765 when my Dad had his stroke a few months back.

CFD or a private?

[Bound Fo' Glory]

CFD or a private?
I made the 911 call, Chicago Heights FD responded.

[weknowhowtolive]

I rode in an ambulence when i was 16 and it was almost a grand.

[Bound Fo' Glory]

I rode in an ambulence when i was 16 and it was almost a grand.
It all depends...it isn't cheap, especially if you get Paramedics or an Advanced Life Support unit.

[SkinnyBird]

I made the 911 call, Chicago Heights FD responded.

Cheaper than a private.

Stuff like skillset (basic or advanced) and mileage does make a difference sometimes, and I've heard that some agencies even charge extra if it's at night.

[Argyleskin]

Pre-existing clauses expire after 6 months to a year.

Depending on what you have, where you live and what health care you have.

I've had a couple of insurance companies in through the years. The one that did "cover" me also decided not to pay. They found various outs for my cat scans, and a procedure to drain my cyst using a robotic arm with a needle attached to it while I was hooked up to a trio of ultrasound machines. Why did they? Wasn't needed.
That was only a few thousand. I can only guess how much it would have been with real life doctors working on me at once trying to do the same thing the state of the art shit was attempting. The best part was I didn' find out the refusal to pay until a collection agency called me and told me of it. Not only did they not pay but they managed to decline it without telling me until AFTER I called to find out what the hell a collection agency was doing calling me about a bill I shouldn't have had.

I realize you work in the healthcare industry/insurance. But in some cases there are simply far too many things going on for the insurance company to care or to pay. No matter what the law there always seems to be an out for them.

[militarymite]

OMG Argyleskin, they turned you into a robot? And made you pay for it. Seriously, first the goddamn doctors order these procedures for patients and they don't even consider you may have to pay for them. I think they get kickpack pay. Hospitals should be required to have a printed brochere listing the prices of services and procedures but they don't. That way they can charge you more if they want. With today's technology ect. insurance companies should be able to tell you exactly what they will and won't pay for on the spot. If auto insurance companies can then health care companies can. I had to go to a hospital twice in a month recently once for endoscopy and the other for orthoscopy. The hospital wanted me to pay $2500 up front each time hoping I would be dumb enough to just write them a check in full. They said I had not reached my insurance deductible yet. Instead I gave them $500 and said I would pay the rest later. Low and behold when it all ended up, I recieved a bill from the hospital for only $325 which made the whole bill less than half what they were originally trying to charge me.

[weknowhowtolive]

OMG Argyleskin, they turned you into a robot? And made you pay for it. Seriously, first the goddamn doctors order these procedures for patients and they don't even consider you may have to pay for them. I think they get kickpack pay. Hospitals should be required to have a printed brochere listing the prices of services and procedures but they don't. That way they can charge you more if they want. With today's technology ect. insurance companies should be able to tell you exactly what they will and won't pay for on the spot. If auto insurance companies can then health care companies can. I had to go to a hospital twice in a month recently once for endoscopy and the other for orthoscopy. The hospital wanted me to pay $2500 up front each time hoping I would be dumb enough to just write them a check in full. They said I had not reached my insurance deductible yet. Instead I gave them $500 and said I would pay the rest later. Low and behold when it all ended up, I recieved a bill from the hospital for only $325 which made the whole bill less than half what they were originally trying to charge me.Actually the costs are in your plan.

[Hostilesouthern]

Seriously, first the goddamn doctors order these procedures for patients and they don't even consider you may have to pay for them. I think they get kickpack pay.

Hospitals should be required to have a printed brochere listing the prices of services and procedures but they don't. That way they can charge you more if they want. With today's technology ect. insurance companies should be able to tell you exactly what they will and won't pay for on the spot. If auto insurance companies can then health care companies can.

No, no one gets kick back pay Mr.Tin Hat Wear-er.

And I am agreeing with you, a comprehensive price list should be posted and health insurance should be treated similarly to auto insurance. The biggest change I would like to see, patients start taking charge of their care and their bills.

[Diana E]

Depending on what you have, where you live and what health care you have.

I've had a couple of insurance companies in through the years. The one that did "cover" me also decided not to pay. They found various outs for my cat scans, and a procedure to drain my cyst using a robotic arm with a needle attached to it while I was hooked up to a trio of ultrasound machines. Why did they? Wasn't needed.
That was only a few thousand. I can only guess how much it would have been with real life doctors working on me at once trying to do the same thing the state of the art shit was attempting. The best part was I didn' find out the refusal to pay until a collection agency called me and told me of it. Not only did they not pay but they managed to decline it without telling me until AFTER I called to find out what the hell a collection agency was doing calling me about a bill I shouldn't have had.

I realize you work in the healthcare industry/insurance. But in some cases there are simply far too many things going on for the insurance company to care or to pay. No matter what the law there always seems to be an out for them.


Ya know, I was thinking about your ineligiblity for coverage under your common place employee group programs. I'm not sure about the laws in Washington but I'm certain they must have some individual health insurance plans. The coverage isn't the best and most definitely not cover your problems but a lot of the times the premiums are cheap, the point being that after 6 mos to a year of being covered under one of these plans, you are no longer considered un-insurable. You can then move into a better group plan and not have your benefits limited. It might be worth your time to eat the relatively cheap cost of having an individual plan to increase you insurable status. Kinda like a health insurance credit report.

On most health insurance applications there's a section asking about prior coverage, if you have prior coverage, they can't exclude you. And if you have not had prior coverage, the worst they can do is limit your benefits for 6 months to a year, like Lindsey said, but they can't exclude you completely.

The worst part about health insurance is navigating the system. I deal with health insurance in more of an underwriting capacity but I am also familiar with how they operate in regards to paying your bills. They will search for every reason to deny something. This is why people need to step up not just accept what they say. Also, part of your group administrators job is to help settle issues you are having with the health insurance company. No company just walks in and buys health insurance directly, they have brokers. It's the brokers job to service your group account, and that includes settling issue for unpaid or denied bills. So don't be afraid to harrass your employer to help you settle your issues if you have them.

[Diana E]

And one other thing while i'm on my soap box. The reason for limited coverage for people who have not had prior coverage is the health insurance companies don't want to pick people up just because they suddenly get sick and want coverage. The premiums paid by ALL the customers of a health insurance company go towards ALL the claims submitted to the company. If an employee hasn't been paying towards the pool, why would the health insurance company want to pay claims on their behalf? It's kinda like cheating. So they limit their coverage. As far as operating a business (which health insurance is), it makes perfect sense.

[militarymite]

No, no one gets kick back pay Mr.Tin Hat Wear-er.

And I am agreeing with you, a comprehensive price list should be posted and health insurance should be treated similarly to auto insurance. The biggest change I would like to see, patients start taking charge of their care and their bills.
Often doctors, hopitals, and service providers are operating under a corporate net like Cedars Sinai. They are all in it together.

[weknowhowtolive]

And one other thing while i'm on my soap box. The reason for limited coverage for people who have not had prior coverage is the health insurance companies don't want to pick people up just because they suddenly get sick and want coverage. The premiums paid by ALL the customers of a health insurance company go towards ALL the claims submitted to the company. If an employee hasn't been paying towards the pool, why would the health insurance company want to pay claims on their behalf? It's kinda like cheating. So they limit their coverage. As far as operating a business (which health insurance is), it makes perfect sense.

I think the problem is that people want healthcare to be this magical gift from the heavens thats free for everyone and money is no problem. Yeah, thatd be nice...its just not realistic. SOMEONE is paying for that, and its YOU.

[Argyleskin]

I think the problem is that people want healthcare to be this magical gift from the heavens thats free for everyone and money is no problem. Yeah, thatd be nice...its just not realistic. SOMEONE is paying for that, and its YOU.

I don't expect it to be free, not by any means. But if I'm given a brochure from an insurance company stating they will cover me. Talk to them before I go in about what I'm getting done. Pay the decutables, pay the upfront and get told they will not cover me after said procedures..Yeah I got a problem with that. It's called them doing what they said they would, me doing what I needed to do and the result me getting pumped up the ass without knowing.

I'm done with the whole insurance thread. I know what's happened in my case, I know what I need to do next time I go in for something...Pay for the whole kit and kaboodle myself. Why? Because then and only then will I know it's paid, know my credit won't be effected by their non-payment and I will know exactly how much I'll be charged.

As for the topic of the thread Universal Healthcare..I'm still for it.

[weknowhowtolive]

I don't expect it to be free, not by any means. But if I'm given a brochure from an insurance company stating they will cover me. Talk to them before I go in about what I'm getting done. Pay the decutables, pay the upfront and get told they will not cover me after said procedures..Yeah I got a problem with that. It's called them doing what they said they would, me doing what I needed to do and the result me getting pumped up the ass without knowing.

I'm done with the whole insurance thread. I know what's happened in my case, I know what I need to do next time I go in for something...Pay for the whole kit and kaboodle myself. Why? Because then and only then will I know it's paid, know my credit won't be effected by their non-payment and I will know exactly how much I'll be charged.

As for the topic of the thread Universal Healthcare..I'm still for it.

I dont disagree. And i wasnt saying YOU thought it was going to be free. Its just that a lot of the people for universal healthcare havent really thought out what effects its going to have on them personally, and once they hear their taxes are going to go up by X amount they freak and change their mind.

[Diana E]

I think the problem is that people want healthcare to be this magical gift from the heavens thats free for everyone and money is no problem. Yeah, thatd be nice...its just not realistic. SOMEONE is paying for that, and its YOU.

You're absolutely right it's you. And that's the way it should be. Sorry, but that's how I feel. And i'm a single mom with 2 kids that makes do. Believe me it ain't easy. But I manage.. and so far i've kept my head, been smart and am still able to manage completely independently of anyone else. If I can do it, anyone fuckin can. So I don't wanna hear shit about boo fuckin hoo I can't do it, afford it, blah blah blah.

But I admit that there are some aspect that are fucked about the system but that is the breaks sometimes. It might sound cold but on the same note it's realistic and true. The last thing you need is governments hand in it. It is ALWAYS AND UNIVERSALLY better to have an issue of this calibre handled PRIVATELY. I wouldn't even mind if health insurance was federally dispensed and regulated. But for fucks sakes, when the dept. of motor vehicles can't be trusted to be handled by the state without causing 3 hour waiting lines, what the FUCK do you think the state/federal gov't would do to health insurance. Let's keep it in perspective.. really. I have been in this business too fuckin long to allow myself to be dillusioned by fuckin pipe dreams.

For something that is so fucking vital to a person's way of life, you'd think people paid more fucking attention to what it actually is.


sorry /rant

[LeftWingScum]

why don't all of you who think healthcare "isn't someone elses problem" drop your plans already and pay 100% out of pocket? talk about hypocrisy!

[Dawgnuts]

I am curious to know what type of health insurance you have presently? It's obvious you know nothing about the healthcare system in this country. Non-working people, illegals, ect. are served through the medi-care system which ALL taxpayers pay for. It is illegal for any hospital emergency room to deny medical attention to anyone in need. The government reimburses the hospital for a percentage of the hospital's actual cost. The rest is charged to people who have insurance or out of pocket payers (people that have no insurance but have the ability to pay). So the rest is still being payed by us through higher and higher insurance premiums and super inflated medical charges hospitals charge so the percentage paid by the government and insurance companies covers their costs. Hospitals are in the business for profit, nothing else. When the for profit hospitals start losing money, because the emergency room is flooded with non-paying patients, the hospital closes down the emergency room which is legal but hurts everyone because the availability of these facilities is critical. In all this it's the middle-class that suffers. Hard working people who pay their way, and are either self-insured if self employed, or insured through their work which is usually an HMO notorius for low cost helthcare which means very limited healthcare, you know you get what you pay for. As the bill states, fifty percent of bankruptcys in California are due to catastrophic illness, burdening the insured with astronomical healthcare bills they are unable to pay. Who do you think the cost of absorbing these unpaid bills are passed onto by hospitals and insurance companies? It sems fair to me to have everyone pay an equal amount that is reasonable into a single fund that everyone would equally benefit from. It's the middle class that has everything to benefit from this deal. If it was put to a vote, I bet it would have overwhelming support. I believe this system is already in place im Massachuesetts under the leadrship of republican governor Mitt Romney.

Bullfucking shit. Clearly you don't know much about it either.

Non-working people, illegals, ect. are served through the medi-care system which ALL taxpayers pay for. It is illegal for any hospital emergency room to deny medical attention to anyone in need.

You ever trying getting medicare? If you have you wouldn't be talkin like that. Why don't you tell that to my dad who is 66 and retired but has to work a part time job to have medical insurance for my mom because she cannot collect medicare untill she is 65. Any person with an income of more then 15-20k and olver the age of 18 and younger then 65 cannot just go out and get medicare. You don't just walk in and get it.

Sure the goverment will cut a hospital a check, which in turn the goverment gets money from the hospital when they take over the account in collections.

[weknowhowtolive]

why don't all of you who think healthcare "isn't someone elses problem" drop your plans already and pay 100% out of pocket? talk about hypocrisy!That makes no sense. I work a job that pays less than $13 an hour and i get free healthcare...you tellin me average joe cant get it? You get it, i KNOW you do.

[Argyleskin]

Bullfucking shit. Clearly you don't know much about it either.



You ever trying getting medicare? If you have you wouldn't be talkin like that. Why don't you tell that to my dad who is 66 and retired but has to work a part time job to have medical insurance for my mom because she cannot collect medicare untill she is 65. Any person with an income of more then 15-20k and olver the age of 18 and younger then 65 cannot just go out and get medicare. You don't just walk in and get it.

Sure the goverment will cut a hospital a check, which in turn the goverment gets money from the hospital when they take over the account in collections.

My mom made $1 dollar over the allowed yearly income to get free health care. Her medicines for her breathing treatments alone were over 100 a week. Not to mention her oxygen and pills. $1 meant her getting a bunch of help or nothing. It's insane what they do to the older people. They need help so badly but keep getting the shaft.

[militarymite]

Bullfucking shit. Clearly you don't know much about it either.



You ever trying getting medicare? If you have you wouldn't be talkin like that. Why don't you tell that to my dad who is 66 and retired but has to work a part time job to have medical insurance for my mom because she cannot collect medicare untill she is 65. Any person with an income of more then 15-20k and olver the age of 18 and younger then 65 cannot just go out and get medicare. You don't just walk in and get it.

Sure the goverment will cut a hospital a check, which in turn the goverment gets money from the hospital when they take over the account in collections.
I think I meant to say Medi-Cal, not Medi-care. Medi-Cal is not a health plan it's a program where the state(California) will give you coupons to pay for an immediate need or illness like an operation. I got it once a long time ago and I remember it was'nt easy but I did get my needs taken care of. It was just a one time thing. Medic-care is a completely different thing so yeah, I was wrong when I typed medic-care.

[militarymite]

That makes no sense. I work a job that pays less than $13 an hour and i get free healthcare...you tellin me average joe cant get it? You get it, i KNOW you do.
That is such a short-sighted statement. I just found out Gov. Schwarzenegger is going to veto the bill anyway, big surprise, so that should make you all happy. He says he will although continue to work on providing healthcare for the citizens of California provided we re-elect the bastard in November. If he cared anything about this issue it seems he might have found time to formulate something over the last four years. Something the Democratic legislature HAS found time to do.

[weknowhowtolive]

That is such a short-sighted statement. I just found out Gov. Schwarzenegger is going to veto the bill anyway, big surprise, so that should make you all happy. He says he will although continue to work on providing healthcare for the citizens of California provided we re-elect the bastard in November. If he cared anything about this issue it seems he might have found time to formulate something over the last four years. Something the Democratic legislature HAS found time to do.Yeah the dems have really done a boatload for CA over the past 10 years or so.

[Tokyohoon]

Funnily enough, this is one of the few areas where I am socialist in thought. Medical treatment should be available for all - because it reduces the number of "walking wounded" and allows them to work, thus stimulating the economy. Your out of pocket, WKHTL, will probably not rise - because the government isn't likely to be paying 20 bucks for an aspirin. Regulators will see to that.

Unfortunately, because it's merely a state-wide adoption, if this passes what you WILL see in the short term is a shortage of doctors as the profit minded roll up their carpets and head across the state line.

Folk in Nevada, Arizona and Oregon can look forward to the cost of medical treatment falling as the glut of practicioners drives prices down.

This is only in the short term, however. Handled wisely, the hospitals will continue to make a decent profit, because of two things:

1) They will no longer have to absorb the costs of emergency treatments for the uninsured. All procedures will be paid for.

2) Malpractice suits will be less frequent - the majority of malpractice suits are not launched by individuals, they are launched by insurance companies. (Hey, they don't just screw patients, they screw EVERYBODY, kiddies!)

All in all, it's not a bad way to go, and the benefit to the state is a healthy workforce.

Another short term benefit to California will be companies and individuals (read: tax revenue) moving to the state to take advantage of the new availability of healthcare.

The only people who truly lose out with socialised medicine are the medium-wealthy (the truly wealthy can go werever they want to get whatever they want done) and the insurance companies. The working class makes out quite nicely with this system.

I mean seriously - Minihoon's had nearly three quarters of a million dollars worth of surgery from some of the world's best heart surgeons. And he got it because we have a socialised medical care system in Japan. Because of that system, I am not losing the house or the car. My family is a precise example of what is good about socialised medicine - we can focus on being a family and getting through the hard times without the additional worries of losing everything because of a medical condition we have no control over.

I'm not losing my mind worrying about the roof on my family's head or a lifetime of bills. I remain efficient and capable in my job. And the state has a new up and coming tax revenue generator (read: worker).

And that's ultimately what it's all about.

[LeftWingScum]

That makes no sense. I work a job that pays less than $13 an hour and i get free healthcare...you tellin me average joe cant get it? You get it, i KNOW you do.

what are you talking about? of course i have a healthcare plan through work, which my employer (the aforementioned someone else) pays the majority of.

what i'm saying is that if you had some sense of ethics with yourself you'd drop employer healthplans, drop "free" healthplans, and pay ONE HUNDRED PERCENT out of your pocket because IT'S NOT SOMEONE ELSES JOB TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTH!

i mean christ, it's not someone else's job to pay for illegal immigrant's healthcare, it isn't someone else's job to pay for yours!

c'mon, what ever happened to self responsibility? since when did everybody turn into some kind of devil spawn socialist with someone else paying for their healthcare? someone else putting money into their 401ks?

[weknowhowtolive]

what are you talking about? of course i have a healthcare plan through work, which my employer (the aforementioned someone else) pays the majority of.

what i'm saying is that if you had some sense of ethics with yourself you'd drop employer healthplans, drop "free" healthplans, and pay ONE HUNDRED PERCENT out of your pocket because IT'S NOT SOMEONE ELSES JOB TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTH!

i mean christ, it's not someone else's job to pay for illegal immigrant's healthcare, it isn't someone else's job to pay for yours!

c'mon, what ever happened to self responsibility? since when did everybody turn into some kind of devil spawn socialist with someone else paying for their healthcare? someone else putting money into their 401ks?I have only had health care for 5 months. I didnt whine about it. If i needed help i paid out of pocket 100%, or better yet, did homeopathic stuff that doesnt require a fuckload of cash and doesnt aid in strengthening the common flu.

[LeftWingScum]

I have only had health care for 5 months. I didnt whine about it. If i needed help i paid out of pocket 100%, or better yet, did homeopathic stuff that doesnt require a fuckload of cash and doesnt aid in strengthening the common flu.

i don't care how long you've had it, or if you complaind or didn't about it. i'm simply saying that since you've gotten so big on demonizing people who get things for "free" or have aspects of their life "paid by someone else", your life should jive with your politics, right?

[weknowhowtolive]

i don't care how long you've had it, or if you complaind or didn't about it. i'm simply saying that since you've gotten so big on demonizing people who get things for "free" or have aspects of their life "paid by someone else", your life should jive with your politics, right?WHy, yours doesnt. Dont pull that shit Craig, i know who you live with, what you make etc. I will fucking slap that shit down in public if you try and pull shit on me.